4x4 lawntractor

About a year ago i saw someone on another site building a 4x4 lawntractor- it was sorta cobbled together ( looked like itd fall apart actually) - he used a peerless with the lower input/side sprocket to a jackshaft and ran two chains- one to the front ( with a differental axle) and a straight rear axle , to steer he used large ujoints and a 'cage' to keep em together and used 4 large rear tires on it- thing was lifted up about 3-4 feet.

I saw another 4x4- cept this was really low ( the guy used it for plowing) - his was able to disconnect the front axle with a lever .

I keep pondering with a 4x4 idea that might work- id like to use my GT6000, run the horizontal shaft 20 onan( unless it winds up on something else) use the 4 large rear tires ( with a moderate lift).

The plan would be to use the side input wheelhorse trans up front, with ujoints on the ends to steer ( could do that on the stock rear n make 4 wheel steer actually) - run two shift levers up near the dash ( has the normal gears and a hi/low trans- just like the stock trans) - the trick would be to mount the trans to run in the right direction, and mount the engine sideways. Another trick would be to use the stock deck engagement clutch to turn on and off the front trans ( might need to use a chain for it instead of a belt) - the added benefits would be to shift the front trans into neutral for 2 wheel drive , while the other pulley runs the stock trans.

Basically shift nearly on the fly..... right now i have too many projects to deal with - sometime id like to work on it and take it mudding somewhere- itd be huge. I think with AG or atv tires or chains itd be nearly unstoppable.

Ideas/ suggestions?

I dont really know much about how you want to rig it up, as I haven't had much experience with those horz. shaft units. But it sounds like it would be strong enough. It would be heavy though. I would try it, I just don't have the $$ to invest in all the parts.

Also, I do remember the post you are talking about where the guy ran a double sprocket and two chains, one to each axle... I also remember seeing a video of him driving it, doing 4wd donuts in a lil bit of snow. It was lifted really high and was sorta unstable looking, but I'll give credit where it's due! That being said, I remember that post, it was on that OTHER site; and the admin guy there has a powertrip-ego-complex-thing, and deleted the whole post and everything because he though it was totally unsafe... I think thats a little extreem. I've even seen posts on there asking him to repost it because it really had some good ideas in there.

end rant.... lol

O well... Thats why were here.

What kind of cookie? LOL!

Id definitly try n build it , i just want to build the wheelhorse, MTD n wizard first ( my need for speed come first- LOL!) - my nephew says he knows where some mud is around his house - i dunno maybe later this year IF i can buy those berings for the trans , figure out a way to mount it and make it shift and get my 20 HP onan going- id say the rest wouldnt be too bad to build...... i kept eyeballing the wheelhorse trans because of the 1" axle and the flanges that bolt right up to the craftsman wheels ( i have the wheelhorse rear wheels on the GT6000 now actually)- its a beefy gear driven trans.

More i think about it- i think the WH trans has a pulley on the same side as the GT's- id need to use the 'normal' output side of the motor to a jackshaft, then run back to the trans- the clutch side would still drive the front.

Id need to support the 'ujoint' cage from the chassis ( i think that guy welded his to the lifted supports)- i would NOT scrimp on building a monster like that and waste my cash- itd be built right and strong- mine wouldnt be lifted even half as high - maybe about 6" to a foot- to make some lift and room for stuff under it.


Yeah i hear y about that 'other site' - was the one thing that kept me from joining. Basic saftey is understandable ( helmits, brakes, ect) - ill need to look for a tether setup, also considered a seat switch actually.

I have the quantity of tractors to tinker with- just most i want to keep stock as mowers- i really dont have a need for alot of modifed tractors actually- the wizard will be for fun and maybe future speed monger, the wheelhorse is a plain hot rod rat rod- the MTD im sorta building for my nephew to run around with when he comes over- or id take it over to family events.

If i build the 4x4 - thatd be mud bogging only ( if/where i could find some) with an ocassional run around the yard - who knows, meybe spiff it up and take it to shows with the restored MTD lowes machine?

they have those yard man tractors with the all wheel steering so why couldnt you take the rear end out of that and attach it to the frontt of a basic mower and find a way to connect the drive pulley for the deck to run the front end

Arild365: Yepper- i actually have one that im going to restore - a 95 MTD 'lowes team racing' edition.

Heres a pic of it:


MTD transaxles arent really that strong of a unit- even tho its a forward/neutral/reverse unit ( actual transmission is in the varible pulley setup) - i dont think it could handle the stress of off roading , definitly not any serious speed either. I suppose if someone had 2 of them and wanted it for light duty trail riding/offroading itd be fine.

Building the GT6000 id want to build it as heavy duty as i can - i dont want any breakages. The other part im looking at is the side inputs on the transmissions- be easier to hook up from the horizontal shaft motor.

Wheelhorse and The GT transmissions are super heavy duty units able to handle the mud/offroading.

i see what you guys mean

Actually Chunk- it turns pretty tight, almost like a zero turn. I had it out a while back doing donuts with it- once i get it wired , ill grab a video of it.

Someone on the hot rod toyz site sed to use 2 axles with the gears out of an old transmission - use beings behind em- id say use some angle or square tubing to mount the berings in an ' L ' shape- maybe weld a angle brace as well across them , then build a box out of spare metal ( id say weld all the sides but one ( as a inspection hatch) - drill a hole in that for a fill /breather- only thing i see is youd need to get some oil seals that fit the axles. I REALLY want to build one sometime n try it. I coulda bot a bush hog for $200- didnt think spending that much for a RAGB was worth it. I know alot of the large decked cubs and JD's have those RAGB's - like 50" .

Ill make a video of its construction when i get around to it- LOL- have the perfect canadate with the wrecked rear axle from the LT11 sitting outside my shed....

The AWD tractor is pretty cool - be a lil tough to build tho, unless y came across a couple really small 4x4 auto axles ( like off a samuri? ) - need some shortening and lil modifying - itd be a cool machine.

Actually i was thinking mounting the drivetrain ( slightly modifed) onto a lawntractor - using the axles n transfer case- heck even the motor for that fact- would make an awsome off road tractor.

right i want to take this topic back up as i am considering it for my next project, my only thought at the moment is how the steering would work?

ideas?!

Hi

Im liking this forum, been reading posts with interest.

I have been thinking about the 4wd tractor and if you wanted to disengage the front wheels from the middle driven transaxle, you would have to find a way to lock that axle otherwise all the power would go to the disengaged end and not to the driven rear wheels.

This is assumed that the easiest way would be to mount a transaxle running horizontally down the chassis, then 2 axle/ diff set up for front and rear wheels.

Another thought would be to use a horizontal shaft engine, linked to a torque converter that then drives the middle transaxle? This then would eliminate the clutch belt problems??

Jonny

Bigbleuboy: Using a regular tractor trans and making it steer? Youd use ujoints on the axle ends- then have to make some sort of bering cage ( to support both sides of the ujoints with berings) and somehow figure out linkages ( most likely a direct steer setup) to actually turn the wheels. Its probably be best to hack a lil bit of the transmissions axle ends off in order to mount the front wheels with a keyway .

Jonny Briggs: Easiest way using two standard transmissions for a 4x4 is to use and electric clutch for the lower of the center 3 stacked pulley ( top one for motor belt- middle for rear transmission and bottom for the front) and using a verticle shaft motor - the rear transmission could be locked - the front would need to stay original to actually steer the tractor. Problem with a setup like that is limited ground clearance, unless larger wheels are used.

Probably further back in this thread i mentioned a horizontal twin motor mounted sideways - striaght driven side goes to a standard rear GT transmission ( in my case - itd be a 3 hi/3 low side input trans) - the other side would use the exisiting electric deck clutch to drive a 69 wheelhorse side input 3 hi/3low trans up front ( mounted the same way as if on the rear)- ground clearance would be from using 4 rear GT tires on it . I say its a 4x4- actually not, due to the differential action of the front trans- unless a temporary wheel lock could be figured out. To disnegage the front trans, flip a switch to turn the clutch off, put it in neutral and instant 2 wheel drive.

I got two more ideas that just came to me after reading this.

1. 4 individual hydraulic motors, one for each wheel, and pivot motor/hub/wheel for steering. This could allow 4-wheel steering easily also. I recently got to check out how a Dixie Chopper is built. The same principle could be applied here. Lawnmower motor running a hydraulic pump.

2. 2 axles from an electric golf cart and add u-joints to the front one to make a steering unit. Actually, some golfcarts use modified Ford 9" axles, which could easily be converted to a steering axle with junkyard D44 knuckles and "C"s. Add 2 short side GM 10-bolt front shafts which are also 28 spline and you really wouldn't need any custom machined parts. You'd also get fullsize hydraulic brakes in the process. Also I have been wondering, could you run 3 truck alternators off a lawnmower engine to power the golf cart motors at 36V?

I see what you mean with the belts, but I was thinking more on the lines of having just one complete transaxle gearbox, then strip down 2 others to get the axle and differential. Then drive the diffs from the middle transaxle, this way you would only have one gear shifter, but It would mean the tractor would be in 4wd all the time.

Jonny

Jamus: A guy on YT already did that- he used one of those z turns, hooked up two more hydraulic motors up front and made a 4x4 tractor - check this out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN92bwjVUmM

Be easier to convert the tractor to a gas engine instead of electric on a golf kart- thats alot of weight in batteries - you would most likely only need one alternator- off a newer car- they put out a ton of amps.

Jonny Briggs: In that case, itd be easier to do a setup i saw on a forum a while back - the guy used a peerless 700 trans in the middle - ran a chain to a jack shaft, mounted 2 sprockets on it- ran one to a straight axle in the back and the other to a axle in the front containing a differential - then he used a 'bering cage' for the u joints on the front. In his case he lifted it several feet off the ground and had chain problems .

I bet there was problems with the chains, there's a fair bit to tension correctly. I would hopefully use the axles that come out of the driven transaxle as propshafts, just a case of getting the drive from these to the diffs at either end.