-= Li'l Red =-

Going to perform some updates to Li'l Red again.  Not mentioned in the video... I will be going back to the single pulley clutch.  I left the single on Bowser and it seems to be much more fluid than Red's.  Also, less pulleys to fail.

MightyRaze wrote:

Going to perform some updates to Li'l Red again.  Not mentioned in the video... I will be going back to the single pulley clutch.  I left the single on Bowser and it seems to be much more fluid than Red's.  Also, less pulleys to fail.

Thats because of how a belt system engages. It doesn’t so much “clutch” as it “grabs”. O amount of trying to ease i to a belt will ever make it clutch like a friction disc. You can slip it sometimes, ut most time its just feeling for it to grab. The rubber in the belt makes the engagement range so small, it usually just reaches a point where it grabs the pulley and then its essentially “self energizing”.

Using two belts on two pulleys just makes the engagement point even smaller and thus, “grabbier”.

Its a limitation of how the belt drive works. Nothing to do but try your best to be smooth and a cept that its going to grab and jump sometimes.

Teardown has started for the winter clutch rebuild.  I'll probably take it upon myself to work some other issues I may encounter along the way like a disconnect for the winch so it quits drawing battery power.  Another point of concern was my gas pedal cable hanging out there.  It mostly fits under the hood, but it has been a point of concern for brush grabbing it and snagging it.  That's a few things I'll look into for now.  I have decided not to refresh any paint at this time.  No one has any!!!    Not going to pay 7-12 a can online.  Other than some character marks, the paint is actually fine.



Going to take my time.  I have a few months, and what I do can help with some back therapy.  Just got to make sure I don't lift too much and not lift and twist.

Red paint is rarer than hens teeth here too. As is yellow and orange. Strange, very strange….

Rustbucket Garage wrote:

Red paint is rarer than hens teeth here too. As is yellow and orange. Strange, very strange….

All the walmarts around here are out of about 97% of all the spray paint.  They have a couple odd colors no one will ever use.  Good time for Krylon and Rustoleum to see what is still out there for discontinuing.  LOL

Slow progress this week.  Weather change has made my back a little bit sorer than it had been.

Here is the clutch and the idler to keep the belt clear of the shifter...



There is some congestion in there, but it works out. 

I have the double pulley stuff removed...



I've already got the single pully spring inserted in that picture as well.

Here you can see the bent pulley arm.  I should have gone much thicker, but at the time I built it, it was all I had.  I'll keep it handy as should the single pulley for some reason not work, I'll recreate this with a thicker stock.



Next time I post, I should have the single installed.

yikes, with the clutch setup bent like that did the belt ever come off ?

MN mudder wrote:

yikes, with the clutch setup bent like that did the belt ever come off ?

Yeah it came off several times at Haspin this year.  Last time it really got ridden.

What kind of jank is this?



Yep, that is a can lid screwed to the side of that pulley.  The flat surface was wrapped with black electrical tape.  I expected a better discription from a 99% positive several thousand reviewed person on ebay.  I guess you can't win them all.  I was going to change it anyways... but.

The clutch arm was also bent a bit.  I'm pretty sure I can fix that as well.  Again, maybe a fair to poor shape discription instead of "used".  Sheesh.

The ebay seller should invest in a ‘safety’ can opener. That will make stronger lids available for repairs.

HAHA!

Single pulley reinstalled.



Now to put the new engine pulley on and find a belt.  I think I may already have one in stock.

I have determined the drum brake is doing nothing for me. I will be uninstalling that.

I was contemplating a double pulley clutch on my two Murray built Lawn General machines (my first builds) but decided to start out with factory clutch system so I could have a starting point to compare future mods to. Looks like I chose well lol. I also had a tensioner pulley in the same location but removed it before I tried it because I have read that its better to have it on the slack side of the belt. You are not the first Ive seen have the tensioner on the tight side of the belt path. Have you experienced any problems from this or is it urban legend? It would certainly help in getting a proper size belt installed and clearing the belt from contacting the shift shaft

You talking about the black pulley in my picture?  It's just a static pulley to keep the belt off the shifter and my vent hose.  I don't use it for tension.  I can already tell that I am going to get more surface of the belt on the rear transaxle with the single pulley.

At least that is my theory.
Red-single pulley
Blue-double pulley  

The reason for the clutch to be on the ‘slack’ side of the drive belt is simple: the pull from the drive pulley would tend to release the clutch if it were on the other side. The best way for a V-belt to transmit power is in a straight line. MR’s drive uses straight lines, no movement on the drive side.
It doesn’t matter much, other than belt wear from bending more, what happens on the other side, as long as the belt gets traction. I like to have the belt wrap around the drive and driven pulleys as much as possible. The factory Craftsman setup tends to pull the belt away from the drive pulley in stock configuration.

As far as brakes are concerned, Amazon has a LOT of disk brake options, many quite inexpensive. I would like to attempt to install one in the stock Peerless silly/tiny brake disk position. I think there is room. Maybe some day.

@MightyRaze I see... it appeared that some adjustment was possible in said black static pulley, but I see where it would interfere with the clutch pulley. My next build is a widebody where I intend to swap the mst-206 with an 820. I've been meaning to investigate your build and am just now getting into reading it so don't spoil the ending, just kidding lol. So I noticed something in your photo different than all of my mst equipped murrays. The shift shaft that comes out of the transaxle has the tab where the linkage connects. All the murrays I have seen have the linkage connected with the hitch pin on the bottom of the tab, where here it is on top of the tab. Was this for alignment with the 820? It looks close to where the mst tab is. I shall see soon enough lol

@Nevadablue Thanx, that was concisely informative and is definitely a game changer for me in some upcoming builds.
PS- That brake configuration is exactly what I was talking about in another thread "craftsman mudder brakes"

Dang you guys making me think!  I think the shift rod was a little longer on the 820 transaxle so I went under?  I'll check my pix.

Here is my original setup when I tore it down the first time ever when it still had the mst206. 



Here is the 820 when I got it.  It didn't have that arm.



Yeah it was a height and location thing.  That is the reason for the flip.  On the left was when the mst206 was in... on the right is the 820 being in.



Hope this helps...

ps, looks like the arm could have been flipped over to keep the connector on top?  Works either way.  

Oh.. something else I dealt with.  I may fix this while I have it torn down now, but the drive pully on the 820 appears to be a bit higher on the 820 than the mst.  I remember being able to get a belt over the pulley, but I cannot on the 820 without loosening the brackets for the shifter crossing over it.  I have some good metal stock I can raise the frame off the transaxle a bit more.

@Dr Bob  A very PIC intensive post.

I busted out the MST206 I had and aligned it up on Red with the 820 for more "accurate" measurements.



The shift rod is in the exact same location on both...



As I mentioned earlier, the 820 had a much longer input shaft.

The 206 had a height around 3 5/8 inches.



The 820 I have came in at about 5 7/8 inches.



I also did a pulley height.  Also, as I had expected.  From the frame mount to the top of the input pulley on my 820 is taller than the MST.

MST frame mount to top of pulley came in just over 4.5 inches.



You can't see the pulley, but... 820 frame mount top of pulley came in about 5 1/16 inches.
 


This was good for me, now I know I need about a half inch lift in the rear.  Time to take the time and get things right.

Video version of my updates thus far.

Frame raised on the transaxle a hair over 1/2 inch higher than it was.  820 input pulley appears to be in much better alignment now for the belt.  Also, a bonus to the 7 inch larger engine pulley, the belt now easily clears the steering bolts.



Still need to remove the rear tires and drill out the new front mount bolts.

Looking good!

Aha! Caught and fixed an allignment issue while going above and beyond to answer a question, cool. Thanx so much for the side-by-side (over-under) comparison. I acquired an 820 and already have the widebody but have yet to compare transaxles side-by-side. This confirmed my suspicions about input pulley height. Now I just have to tackle the shift shaft. Mine is from a Craftsman GT and has a short shift shaft that's a nub that sticks out just outside the case.

Looks like that 7" front pulley gives you plenty of clearance from the steering bolts. While exploring a 5" option, I strongly considered filing the mounting holes square in that bottom steering bearing and replacing the bolts with carriage bolts for their smooth head.

Few little things today.  My metal replacement pulley was the right size at the lip of the pulley, but the belt surface was the wrong diameter so it would not work in the clutch arm.  I did have another, which I have on the clutch arm, but the seal is busted.  I have a replacement on order.  Should be here Thursday.  Once that is on, I should be able to but the rear fenders back on.

Wiring for the rear lights, battery cable and my new vent line is installed. 



One of my older exhaust pipes with the muffler is installed.



Transaxle is now realigned and bolted up.  You can see my 1/2 inch worth of shims in the rear mount.  I could have done nuts or something, but I wanted something a little more structural.  Don't want any undue stresses.



Couple more shots of the exhaust.





My plugs for my rear lights, yellow plug is ground, blue is brakes, and the red is my normal tail lights.



I'm probably going to sit on it a day until my pulley comes in for the clutch arm.  I will likely reuse 75% or more of the existing wiring.  I actually did a decent job last time running it.

I think you should enlarge that ‘lift plate’ to include the outer set of holes in the axle housing and add a gusset between the bolts.

I've thought about that several times.  I'll continue to think about it.   

Got board waiting for my pulley and did a little engine dressing.

im painting my oppy red white and blue