[FINALIST] - Murraymountain's Mountain Murray [2019 Build-Off Entry]

SebastianAlbrecht wrote:

Looks neat!! Cant wait to see it driving!

Thanks.

Well Guys I just got two conformations to AK's last post in this thread. So we got problems now. I will now go work on it some more.

that's how I feel.

Well... I'm not sure where to start.

So this is how yesterdays story goes: We get in the car, hit the road, give us about 20, and we arrive at Wayne's. This is our local parts and feed store. Anyway we had ordered a bunch of Tecumseh seals for my brothers '85ish craftsman earlier this week and by some miracle, they had just came in. So because I can I said, "So I got a question." He's now starring at me. "I have a 15.5 HP B&S that needs rod bearings." He gave me the most confused face I've ever seen. He finally says, "I've never heard of a B&S with rod bearings." And that was that. So this is the second time in a day I've been told B&S don't have rod bearings, 1st was @AllisKidD21, and now Wayne's. So on to the next stop. Now we pull in to the local small engine shop. I walk in the door and the owner and someone else were eating their ham sandwiches. "What can I do for ya!" he says. I tell him "You know that 15 HP Briggs I was talkin' about."
"Yeap."
"I got it with me and wanted to know if you could take a look at it." Anyway long story short he tells me that briggs don't have rod bearings.   I am NOT paying $50 for a cheapo rod! So, Now that I know that the knock won't be fixed, I can stop worrying about that. Now for the 3rd place, the exhaust shop. We get our reinforcements re-cut (BTW the frame reinforcements are done), get our tranny locked, and the owner doesn't charge us anything. "That's a blessing." And then we come home and try to spin it over. "well it's spinning good forward, let's try reverse. Uh oh... gosh darnit! The dang axle's not straight! Can't I ever do anything without doing it twice." But once it's welded it's welded, and I can't do anything about it. Or so I thought. "If it doesn't work then what have I got to lose?" So I heat it up with the torch and start beating on it. "Pow! Pow! Pow!" Hey look it helped! Anyway I got tired of it and just quit. Now the Engine. 4 bolts, "bizn, bizn, bizn, bizn." "engine's mounted!" Starter wire "click, click, click." Okay now the gas line. 30 minutes of searching for gas line later, "Okay I think I got it." Throw some gas in it, throw a battery in it, "Oh look it's dead." give it a jump, no fire. "I knew that junk carb wouldn't work." Try it again, just "POW!... POP!.. POW!"
Let's just call it a night.


Anyway we are in a situation. If I put the tranny back in we take the risk of blowing it to pieces, And the engine I'll have to put out of it's misery eventually. So chances are this may be the end of this build. Give me your opinion. Just throw it back together and see what happens? Or do a Doc Locker.? Now we don't even know if the tranny will last with the Doc Locker so tell me what you think. The engines last day is very near so I'll have to buy a new one anyway. So I'm not so sure about this build anymore.

Okay first of all it seems like you're getting frustrated about your tractor and believe me I know the feeling. Don't approach working your tractor as if you're trying to finish a last minute assignment for school that you're not not going to get good marks on. Come with the attitude that time is on your side. If you encounter a problem take a breath, talk to one of your tractor buddies and move forward in a way that isn't going to destroy what you have and give you more problems. You should be having fun doing this.

Yeah that rod is surprisingly pricey, but it doesn't really look weak. The rods I've seen break have been due to not enough oil in the pan, not due to a cheapo rod. It doesn't seem likely you'll find a good used rod right away but engines are a dime a dozen in this hooby and if you keep you're eye out I bet you can get whole engine or short block without a rod knock for what you were going to pay for just that new rod.

Sounds like the axle either wasn't welded straight or warped. It's fairly simple to put that axle on some kind of rollers (maybe made from swivels casters screwed to a workbench) then roll the axle with some kind of pointer next to it (you can can do this without a fancy indicator), find the high spot, take time and patience and bend the axle close to straight as you can. This won't happen on the first try and might take 5-10 tries to get the axle straight enough.

I might be a little frustrated with it but I'd bet a lot of it actually comes from school work LOL. When I'm not doing school work I'm working on tractors because that's the only time I can. I already blew this weeks time on it so the rest of the week is pretty much school. It's sitting over in the corner for now until I can get something worked out on it. I've Been helping my brother here and there with putting his '85 craftsman back together so that kinda takes my mind off it. And somehow when he went down there he got the MM to fire up but it ran like crap. No worries, It just needs a carb and I got one on the way. Good news is I didn't really hear the knock. Makes me wonder if it's just a simple head cleaning. Anyway I've got plenty of school to keep my mind off of it.

What I meant by "cheapo rod" was that it probably costs them maybe $15 to make it and then they rip you off with $50. What makes me mad is that I already have that much in it just trying to make it start. But like you said I can easily get a engine for that price.

The axle we're just kinda working on whenever. The thing about that is, the axle may not be my main problem. Those gears aren't buttoned up like they should be, so the tranny may not even hold up to it's new speed. So It's a gamble. What do you think about shaving the case a little?

I'm wondering if this isn't the knock you think you're hearing. If it was a rod bearing knock, or any bottom end knock for that matter, you'd definitely hear it and it'd be an all the time thing.

I don't think piston slap is a real common thing with these engines, so might as well rule that out. Wonder if it's an issue with the counter-balancer? Those can make noise sometimes and it usually means they're about to let go.

Also maybe give the valve lash a check.

I Already adjusted the valves. It really only did it when it warmed up but I can't keep it running long enough to listen to it. BTW this one has the AVS on it so that might be something to look at but I know nothing about AVS.
I think there might just be a bunch of junk on the piston that might not be burning off. I mean after a loud backfire it smokes a pale gray smoke when turning it over, and after it runs it smells like something awful.

Looking through the thread, wondering if you pulled the motor apart yet. I'm thinking you heard a knock and assumed it was the rod. If this is the case, and it turns out to be the piston rod is really bad, then save your money on buying a piston rod. Just putting a new piston rod in will not fix it. In any case, if the piston rod is bad to where it is knocking while running, the bad parts are the piston rod and the crankshaft piston rod journal surface. Which means the crank made the rod go bad and putting a rod in the engine then the crank will eat up the new rod too. A simple test you can do while engine is together to see if the piston rod is knocking, which really means there is an excessive gap on the bearing surface of the piston rod, you can feel for it. Pull the spark plug, this should give you access to the piston moving up and down in the cylinder, you can slide in a long skinny screw drive in the spark plug hole to touch the top of the piston, the screw driver will move in and out of the spark plug hole with the piston moving up and down. Be careful not to jam the screw driver. Feel for the piston to be halfway up the stroke, stop, then move the crank in the opposite direction. You are feeling the screw driver to see if the piston moves with the crank. If you feel the piston not moving with the crank for a split second when changing direction of the crank then this will presume that there is an excessive gap on the journal. You would also feel the excessive gap through holding the screw driver by feeling a light clunk on the screw driver. You would be spinning the crank really slow with one hand and holding the screw driver with your other hand so it stays on the piston top with very light pressure and to do so that the screw driver is not pushing down the piston but is just being held in place.

Now, if you feel that the piston is moving with the crank at all times, even when you change directions at mid stroke, but still feel a clunk on the screw driver, then the excessive gap is somewhere else in the rotating assemble.

now if you feel everything moving with no clunk on the screw driver, then no excessive gap. All is good.

The best time to check for this is at mid stroke of the piston, when the piston is moving up or down in the cylinder and is in the middle, because the crank shaft throw is to the side of the block, is the easiest position to feel for excessive gap in the rotating assembly.

This is a simple test to do, moving slow, and feeling the screw driver as you move the crank, anything wrong will stand out. Then you can make a better informed decision on how to proceed.

Okay I just went out and checked. It seems to be fine. No clunk on the screw driver, but I did hear a small click every time it stops turning (in all our motors). So basically since it doesn't appear to be inside the motor, it shouldn't blow, right?

BTW got a quick question. My brothers '85 craftsman out of nowhere lost power. Hit the key, and all is gone. it's getting power to the ignition and that is where it stops. Any idea on what could be the problem?

Murraymountain wrote:

Okay I just went out and checked. It seems to be fine. No clunk on the screw driver, but I did hear a small click every time it stops turning (in all our motors). So basically since it doesn't appear to be inside the motor, it shouldn't blow, right?

BTW got a quick question. My brothers '85 craftsman out of nowhere lost power. Hit the key, and all is gone. it's getting power to the ignition and that is where it stops. Any idea on what could be the problem?

ARE you getting any power out of the ignition sw. in the run position or crank position ? if not it would be the sw. is bad also check your ground wire and all other connections.

The power is passing through the fuse box to the battery side of the ignition. Then when he hits crank, ALL power (except the battery itself) is gone.

Murraymountain wrote:

The power is passing through the fuse box to the battery side of the ignition. Then when he hits crank, ALL power (except the battery itself) is gone.

I would start a thread on it if you can't nail it down. I would work backwards from the starter. If you are not hearing the click from the solenoid check, if it getting 12v when you turn the key... Allot of the more difficult electrical probs I run into have to do with the grounding of the solenoid. If one of the safety switches are bad, nothing works... I pull the ground wire off the solenoid and make a temp ground, if that works, its a bad safety switch...

If the solenoid is good, suspect the ignition. If the ignition is good, start looking at simple stuff, like the fuse or that the safety switches are actually depressed, is the battery good etc..

Right. The solenoid might be the problem 'cause it was having issues with it when we got it. Either way we'll figure it out. Thanks for the info.

Murraymountain wrote:

Okay I just went out and checked. It seems to be fine. No clunk on the screw driver, but I did hear a small click every time it stops turning (in all our motors). So basically since it doesn't appear to be inside the motor, it shouldn't blow, right?

There is no definite yes or no on that unless you actually pull it apart, but if nothing was noticed then I would think that the rotating assemble (crank, piston rod) should be fine. These are tough little motors and when they are really hurt then they would be telling you outright. The small clicking might be the governor weights inside on the little geared wheel that you here.

Yep, probably the gov. Well like @Crazy_Carl  said, I can always get a motor for $50.

Hey MM, I read through your build so far, looking good. Giving me pointers on building a Murray. Nice orange color, won't mistake you for deer anyway. The frame strengtheners all of it. I learned a lot from it. I see your getting good advise too. What a great forum.

Yeah the orange did turn out pretty nice. I probably should have used it for parts but I'm way too far in it for that. Just make sure you got a tractor with a "good head on it's shoulders" to start with and your build should go fairly smooth.

Anyway guys, I FINALLY got the tranny back in.



But... it's not all good news. The wheels don't spin. Well, I guess the axle's still bent. It'll be fine, right (NO). Hopefully by driving around very slowly it may just shave away whatever is grabbing the bowl gear. Then I'll have to change the tranny oil at best case scenario. So that's what I'm hoping for. Anyway I'm still waiting on my carb, need a foot throttle, I need to work out the hand brake, install the pulleys and belt, steering column reinforcements and floorboards. And then, maybe, try to drive it.

If you drive it with a warped axle there's a good chance it'll crack the transaxle case, unfortunately.

Even if the axles were welded at just slightly the wrong angle or it warped your cases will wear or crack.

AllisKidD21 wrote:

If you drive it with a warped axle there's a good chance it'll crack the transaxle case, unfortunately.

Even in 1st gear at low idle?

muckmudd wrote:

Even if the axles were welded at just slightly the wrong angle or it warped your cases will wear or crack.

Is it such a bad thing if they wear? I mean that's kinda what I was hoping for. I actually shaved the bowl gear's edges down a bit so I wouldn't have to shave the case. But I ain't no expert on these things. And Now that I think about it if the locker breaks then I can't put a straight axle in it because the casing's axle hole or whatever it's called would be too wide, right.

I guess U put the differentisl not correctly back together so its 1teeth offset or so & thats jamming everything up or ya belt system is junk, sheared keystock,...

Check if U can push it, if yes, remove the belt in the rear, try to push it in gear, see if the Trans is working fine

So the deal is that the axle was not welded perfectly straight. I tried to push it a little in neutral without the belt and it did not want to roll. When I got it back together i spun the pulley a few times and it did move, but you can't spin the axle by hand. So I'm just gonna give it a go and hope for the best.

Been trying to button it up all day, but it doesn't seem to like that idea.

Change of plans guys. I'm just gonna go ahead and do the Doc Locker. VERY VERY costly so once it's drivable the build is on hold. Good news is the floorboards are on, steering column has been reinforced, pulleys are in, and... the knock seems to be fixing itself. Still need to do the brakes, foot throttle, and sort out the belt . Oh and I've just been informed that the tensioner pulley won't work. So, $15 for the carb, $35 for a coil, about $45 for the Doc Locker, $25 for paint, $10 for tranny stuff, $5 push button start, $20 for the 4" pulley, plus whatever I'm forgetting to mention. So all in all I'm somewhere around the $150 mark. Yep, that budget is gonna have to go away.

Murraymountain wrote:

Change of plans guys. I'm just gonna go ahead and do the Doc Locker. VERY VERY costly so once it's drivable the build is on hold. Good news is the floorboards are on, steering column has been reinforced, pulleys are in, and... the knock seems to be fixing itself. Still need to do the brakes, foot throttle, and sort out the belt . Oh and I've just been informed that the tensioner pulley won't work. So, $15 for the carb, $35 for a coil, about $45 for the Doc Locker, $25 for paint, $10 for tranny stuff, $5 push button start, $20 for the 4" pulley, plus whatever I'm forgetting to mention. So all in all I'm somewhere around the $150 mark. Yep, that budget is gonna have to go away.

compared to what all that stuff costs in my Country, its dirtcheap! I wasted 1,2k$ on a Junk Mower (all my savings) & got a pile of rust for it...

Dang that's expensive! Right now all I have in my wallet is $160ish, so once I can just hop on it, fire it up, and drive it around, that's when I'll have to stop putting money in it. Gonna have to get back to the lowes project so I can sell it, that's the only reason I can afford this .

Hey I'm into Ol' Red for $2000!

That's the thing with mud mowers, unless you have parts machines laying around, even though buying parts from ebay is really cheap in America, you can get nickled and dimed to death just buying parts here and there.

Hobbies cost money. However I'd rather spend $2000 building a cool tractor then $12000+ on an ATV. Most guys drop $60 on a video game no problem. I think buying $60 in tractor parts is money well spent if you enjoy the hobby. Tractor modding is one of the cheapest hobbies out there which is why I got back into it.

Yeah I mean it takes a lot of work, but when you really look at it, putting $1200 to building a tractor better than any ATV definitely beats spending $5000 on a used 4 wheeler. I really can't afford to do this but I try, and that's all that matters right. It took me 6 months to build my hydro when I could've had it done in 4 because I ran out of money. It really depends on what you start with, I probably got a good $200 in my hydro but I started with a perfectly good lawn tractor, Whereas the MM was a total piece of junk, and now I got $150 in it and still can barely start it.