Project 4x4x4

I finally picked up a complete Craftsman LT4000 with AWS.




I feel this was a better platform to use than the Noma tractor because of small differences:

Noma;
Brittle plastic fender
12 hp single flathead engine.
Hood has that futuristic pointy nose (I think it's ugly)

LT4000;
metal fender
15hp opposed flathead twin
Hood is still kind of ugly, but looks more like a tractor hood.

This is the start of the 4-wheel drive with 4-wheel steering project (a.k.a. 4x4x4, just like the Bigfoot Monster Truck).

More to come.  

I'm happy that you finally found another axle. They are crazy hard to find. Looking forward to this project.

They're not too hard to find if you know what you're looking for. There's a Noma tractor for $300 and another LT4000 AWS for $425 on CL in my area right now. There was also a Noma parts tractor for $75 a little while back, but it was missing the rear wheels.

The mythical Unicorn of rear wheel steering axles for me, is the MTD FNR with 4-lugs, which one of our members, Angchor has acquired.

There's a John Deere LX277 AWS on CL for $500 and it looks like a runner with a snow blade setup, but no deck. I think that would be a nice machine to tinker with, but I chose the LT4000 because it was cheaper and I already had one identical axle for the project.

funny thing, but I could get a 4ws for free with a blown engine from a guy at church- but my dad dosen't think i should have another one. also, dangeroustoys56 has a 4ws mtd, but he hasn't been on here since 2011.

1997 Murray wrote:

funny thing, but I could get a 4ws for free with a blown engine from a guy at church- but my dad dosen't think i should have another one. also, dangeroustoys56 has a 4ws mtd, but he hasn't been on here since 2011.

Where are you located?

I was given mine by a fellow member of my church, as well.

deming, wa. just up the road from you.

1997 Murray wrote:

deming, wa. just up the road from you.

Quite a ways up the road! LOL

If you had been closer I would have suggested that you get it and bring it over and find a work space.

I had some time to play around with this machine.




My initial impressions:
Steering around trees/trails is great! If you can get the front tires around the tree, the rear end will follow. It does not want to "return center" though. Once you start turning, it wants to go full lock and you have to really pull on the wheel to get centered again. Certainly needs attention there. Someone had previously messed with the front steering geometry and caused the fronts to "push" and prematurely wear them out.

The opposed twin is nice, and sounds better than a single at idle, but seems to use up fuel quickly. I do have a B&S V-twin saved and I'll likely use it. Some of the Noma models came with a Vanguard V-twin, so the mounting holes may just line up.

The seat is too low. I've gotten used to a higher viewpoint on my other machines. Need to raise the seat maybe 2 inches.

The shifting is nice and easy. The belt configuration sucks; typical 3-pulley design that is made to slip. Also needs a little more speed. Maybe just put a 4" or 5" on the driveshaft.

Mud; This will be a problem. Only 2" of the rear tires are covered by the fender. And as the wheel turns, it throws mud in that direction, which will be all over my legs and the hood! I may have to implement some type of fender that moves with the tire, like on some gokarts I've seen.

I definitely want to put a plow on this one, but that'll be after all the bugs are worked out.

Ok so I may be hoarding, a little bit  


I picked this one up from ebay, sight-unseen. Scotts Turf Master with a 12.5hp B&S flathead. And it even runs!



This one is going to need work on the rear steering; It "crab walks" after turning. Something is very worn out in the linkage.

Dooood- my goodness! I think ive lost track! I think this has turned into a 4x4x4x4x4... or sooner or later it will. Bahaha, that flat head is a great engine.

redlinemotorsportts wrote:

Dooood- my goodness? I think ive lost track! I think this has turned into a 4x4x4x4x4... or sooner or later it will. Bahaha, that flat head is a great engine.

lol. Yeah I think I have more than enough parts now. I may even have enough to continue the project, and fix up the Turf Master into a like-new lawn cutter. The only thing I don't have enough of.... is time to work on it.

What would you make with four steerable axles?

B440 wrote:

redlinemotorsportts wrote:

Dooood- my goodness? I think ive lost track! I think this has turned into a 4x4x4x4x4... or sooner or later it will. Bahaha, that flat head is a great engine.

lol. Yeah I think I have more than enough parts now. I may even have enough to continue the project, and fix up the Turf Master into a like-new lawn cutter. The only thing I don't have enough of.... is time to work on it.

What would you make with four steerable axles?

Id make a 4x4 mower.. and have the rest for spare axles incase a knuckle breaks or something. Ive seen people use MST axles with AWS knuckles fixed to the MST axles, just using the AWS transaxle half shafts-much stronger axle. Puppetkicker on youtube did that for his 4x4 craftsman mud mower.

But back to what i was saying, 2 AWS axles for offroading or something, so you could turn tight and crab walk, that would be so cool. Maybe a racing mower for 4x4 launches or something. up to you.

redlinemotorsportts wrote:

B440 wrote:

redlinemotorsportts wrote:

Dooood- my goodness? I think ive lost track! I think this has turned into a 4x4x4x4x4... or sooner or later it will. Bahaha, that flat head is a great engine.

lol. Yeah I think I have more than enough parts now. I may even have enough to continue the project, and fix up the Turf Master into a like-new lawn cutter. The only thing I don't have enough of.... is time to work on it.

What would you make with four steerable axles?

Id make a 4x4 mower.. and have the rest for spare axles incase a knuckle breaks or something. Ive seen people use MST axles with AWS knuckles fixed to the MST axles, just using the AWS transaxle half shafts-much stronger axle. Puppetkicker on youtube did that for his 4x4 craftsman mud mower.

But back to what i was saying, 2 AWS axles for offroading or something, so you could turn tight and crab walk, that would be so cool. Maybe a racing mower for 4x4 launches or something. up to you.

make it a lowered racer with 2 aws and it could be like the car on fast 6

I finally took the motor off. I had a hell of a time removing the drive pulley. I ended up flipping the tractor over and cutting it off.

  So I thought I took a pic of the motor removed, but I guess not. This shot of the Briggs V-twin that I'm going to use will have to do.  


It looks like it should bolt right in. I just placed it there to get an idea of the size. It seems bigger, but it's definitely lighter than the opposed twin.

I've also been researching the Noma models and it appears that some of the deluxe models had a hydrostatic transaxle and a Vanguard V-twin. The V-twin will happen on mine, even if I have to drill mounting points. The hydro axles though, may not. I can always upgrade to the hydros at a later time.

I like manuals better than hydros. my dads hydro burned up esily, sooner than an mtd. (I've broke about 4 mtds) and you cant speed them up much.

I didn't realise they even made AWS ride on mowers. Maybe they just don't have them here in the UK. I like the idea. Did you see the fella on youtube who has made a skid steer 6 x 6 wheelhorse?

Seen the 6x6. Pretty neat.

beat that! 8x8.. lol

I see your 8x8 and raise you 10x10

B440 wrote:

I see your 8x8 and raise you 10x10

but do you have access to it?

Whats going on with this? I mean, if youre gunna hoard all the rare aws axles, you should make something... Bahaha, im joking. Just....curious

lol yes, I should. This project is way down on the "to-do" list though. This project doesn't make me money or really serve a purpose other than to satisfy my curiosity with designing a machine that drives and steers all wheels.

Right now I'm getting my snowblower ready. It needed the skids and a spring replaced. Had some bad gas in it too.

Hoarding, heh heh. I suppose it's not really hoarding as all the steering parts are NLA, so if I break anything, I'm SOL unless I keep spares. I had my eye on another Noma mower for $150. I should stop... really.

B440 wrote:

lol yes, I should. This project is way down on the "to-do" list though. This project doesn't make me money or really serve a purpose other than to satisfy my curiosity with designing a machine that drives and steers all wheels.

Right now I'm getting my snowblower ready. It needed the skids and a spring replaced. Had some bad gas in it too.

Hoarding, heh heh. I suppose it's not really hoarding as all the steering parts are NLA, so if I break anything, I'm SOL unless I keep spares. I had my eye on another Noma mower for $150. I should stop... really.

You can make your money back on that you know. Guess that's only if you just want the rest of the tractor