Let's Talk Welders! Stick Mig & Tig

I'm searching for a small 120v unit. I own a Chicago Electric 170 Amp-DC, 240 Volt, MIG/Flux Cored Welder. I got it for like $130 in September 2018. Our 2 panels at the house are full and we still haven't bought another panel to run electric to our sheds. Due to that issue I will not be able to run my 240v 50amp welder. I'll keep it for the future. Eventually I'll invest money in to a Chicago Electric 240 Volt Inverter Arc/TIG Welder with Digital Readout so I'll have a Mig, Tig & Good old Stick in the shop. At this time I'm looking for a 120v mig or stick welder. Theres som good ones out on the market but for something as small as I'm wanting I'm not wanting to invest in something real expensive like over $150. Just not worth it. Any recommendations would be appreciated. I'll post some that I have found.

I have a little Campbell Hausfeld 115 Volt Stick Welder I got like 11 years ago. Only does like 70 amps. I sucked with it. It was very picky, finicky and can only use small rods. Then again, it may have been me.

I should fire mine up now and see if I can use it better.

@MightyRaze I seen that in my online search. 70amps is quite low though. Do you stick or make now? Yeah fire it up and let me know please. I know how long it's been around but there's a thing so the anti stick built in to most of the welders now to help prevent the stick sticking to your plate.

Any of those old stick tombstone welders will get it done, you can probably find one cheap....

@mrshaft696 I love the old Lincoln Tombstone welders but only issues is I cant power them. There 230s. New tombstones are way over priced.

Hillbilly Offroading wrote:

@MightyRaze I seen that in my online search. 70amps is quite low though.  Do you stick or make now?  Yeah fire it up and let me know please.  I know how long it's been around but there's a thing so the anti stick built in to most of the welders now to help prevent the stick sticking to your plate.

I use stick. I have my dad's old 1959 Craftsman Colormatic 230 Arc welder. Been a learning experience. Been a lot of self teaching.

@MightyRaze that's cool. Got the rainbow AC/DC Amperage gage sticker on the top of unit?

Well, lets see here.

Mig: Lincoln 180

Tig: everlast 250 EX

Plasma cutter: ebay special - Cut50

pics:



Everything runs off 220. I've had 110 machines before and while they have their place, they're all just mostly woefully under powered (amperage) for much more than sheet metal.

The Lincoln will do a full 180 amps on 220. Good enough for up to 1/4". I also have a spool gun to do aluminum with it. But the arival of my TIG pretty much ended aluminum on the Lincoln.

The Everlast does a full 250amps. It does AC and DC. AC for aluminum, DC for steel. It also will do stick, although I don't do stick. Does just about any metal you can think of. TIG is probably the most versatile process for welding, although it's more of an "in the shop" process as opposed to "in the field".

The plasma cutter is dual voltage, although I run it on 220 for full power out of it. IT will sever up to 1/2" and clean cut up to 1/4 (although the OEM says 3/.

Cart is my own design and constantly evolving.

Price?

If ya gotta ask, ya can't afford it.......

Hillbilly Offroading wrote:

@mrshaft696 I love the old Lincoln Tombstone welders but only issues is I cant power them. There 230s. New tombstones are way over priced.

I would go to lowes and make yourself a giant extension chord then to run from the house, done it many times... buy the heavy gauge wire & the ends that you require & run it out from the laundry room...

I just bought one of harbor freights new titanium welders. Uses an inverter rather than a transformer so it’s SUPER small and light. Even comes with a shoulder strap. I welded my exhaust on my truck with it and I really like it. About 15 pounds maybe, about 5-6 inches wide and 12 inches long. 120 volt, 125 amp or so, and it was right at 200 bucks. Little more than you wanted to spend, but it’s EXTREMELY portable, so it may be worth a look. I’ll be doing all my bodywork and some frame work on my Chevy trucks here in the coming weeks so I’ll get you some more updates on it.

I’ve also got a Lincoln...ProCore? 125. That thing is absolutely huge. Probably about 50 pounds, still 120 volt, but it’s as wide as the little titanium is long. About 12 inches wide and over 16 inches long I would guess. I only used it a couple times before the wire feed motor went out on it (bought used). Still haven’t gotten around to fixing it yet since I purchased the titanium.

Used to have a Chicago electric 90 amp flux cored welder from harbor freight, loved that thing. Bit underpowered, but was a great learning machine and super cheap. I had it for about 4 years with no issues. Gave it to a friend when I got the Lincoln and as soon as I did the Lincoln broke. These have since been discontinued and replaced with the 125. I expect them to be about the same quality with about the same oomph. I noticed mine was about the same size as the Lincoln, but wayyy lighted. Probably about 30 pounds.

Hopefully this helps, right now the titanium is my go to. I have a Lincoln tombstone 180 arc welder I use for the bigger stuff, but I’ve only got one outlet for it and it’s probably every bit of 80-90 pounds. Not portable at all without a cart.

@TourMax The Lincoln 180 is a great unit. I use that just about every other day but I use the big Lincoln Multipurpose Workhorse. Not sure about the ammp/volts. Its set up for Stick & Mig. Yes these 120 v welders are way under power but you gotta buy what you can power. I'd be using it more for field work anyway. Yeah hood bit of dollar signs with that set up you got. I'm surprised you didn't put beefier wheeles on it to tie it all together.

Hillbilly Offroading wrote:

@TourMax The Lincoln 180 is a great unit. I use that just about every other day but I use the big Lincoln Multipurpose Workhorse. Not sure about the ammp/volts. Its set up for Stick & Mig. Yes these 120 v welders are way under power but you gotta buy what you can power. I'd be using it more for field work anyway. Yeah hood bit of dollar signs with that set up you got. I'm surprised you didn't put beefier wheeles on it to tie it all together.

Rear wheels are off an old hand truck. Plenty strong. Fronts are hard plastic casters. Unit never leaves the smooth concrete garage floor so they work perfectly. Had I wanted to roll it a ross pavement or outside on dirt/gravel/grass, I woukd have used pneumatic tires.

But this thing is also mega heavy (tig is water cooled) so solid wheels are the best option. Floor is also gettingepoxy coated this summer, so the rubber/plastic wheels are just what the doctor ordered...

@mrshaft696 Ive thought about that before but my basement has all been closed in as an apartment for the last 11 years and laundry room is at the wrong end of the house causing it to be 100 feet give or take to the shop. Good idea though.

@TourMax thats gonna look great. Im wanting to get my hands on that tennis court paint. Stuff is tough since its mostly sand mixed in.

CraftsmanQuad19 wrote:

I just bought one of harbor freights new titanium welders. Uses an inverter rather than a transformer so it’s SUPER small and light. Even comes with a shoulder strap. I welded my exhaust on my truck with it and I really like it. About 15 pounds maybe, about 5-6 inches wide and 12 inches long. 120 volt, 125 amp or so, and it was right at 200 bucks. Little more than you wanted to spend, but it’s EXTREMELY portable, so it may be worth a look. I’ll be doing all my bodywork and some frame work on my Chevy trucks here in the coming weeks so I’ll get you some more updates on it.

Thank you Ill have to look then. Sounds like a high quality welder for a alright price. Stick or mig? I got a lot of body work to do on the ol square body as well.

It’s a flux core mig. All of the welders I listed are flux cored mig welders except the Lincoln tombstone. Sorry I didn’t specify

To power a welder, any welder with the 120 volt ac house outlet plug, which at most is 20 amp wire (NM 12 gauge) with 20 amp breaker or fuse, the most I seen will be the 125 amp mig at Harbor Freight or 140 amp mig from Home Depot. Both under $300 bucks. The 140 amp mig from Home depot is pushing the house wiring to it's limits though. No matter what you look at, the most you will get out of any welder will be 140 amps with whatever way you weld (TIG/MIG/Stick). Plus you will have to change the wall outlet to a outlet that will take a 20 amp 120 volt plug, which is not a good idea because the wiring in the walls will probably be rated for 15 amps (NM 14 guage) or less and will heat up when running 20 amps of power to the outlet. It would be a good idea to change the wiring in the walls of the house to be safe when changing the outlet to a higher amperage.

I have the Harbor Freight 90 amp mig I run on an outside house outlet that is shared with my laundry room breaker. I rewired that whole circuit from the outside outlet to the laundry room and then to the new breaker box with heavy duty NM 10 gauge wire with a 20 amp breaker. The NM 10 gauge wire is rated for 30 amps, I did the wiring this way so the breaker will pop first before the wire even heats up, for safety. I popped that breaker only once when the wife was washing clothes and I was welding on the highest setting.

@prancstaman id run it right off my generator. This 145amp one was on my list im thinking about. its mig and stick. https://www.toolots.com/km-mig145.html?cid=1614346035&gclid=CjwKCAiAnfjyBRBxEiwA-EECLLKFwR03XX22pKSepoEB9MfBaXhDQZvcnIaStNemn5UHlOZC7bOWFRoC9YcQAvD_BwE#productDetails

I have a question. There are some welders thats 220v but can run on a 110v adapter. Same thing as the ones that are 230v on 115v adapters. How are they able to work properly?

Hillbilly Offroading wrote:

@prancstaman id run it right off my generator. This 145amp one was on my list im thinking about. its mig and stick. https://www.toolots.com/km-mig145.html?cid=1614346035&gclid=CjwKCAiAnfjyBRBxEiwA-EECLLKFwR03XX22pKSepoEB9MfBaXhDQZvcnIaStNemn5UHlOZC7bOWFRoC9YcQAvD_BwE#productDetails

I have a question. There are some welders thats 220v but can run on a 110v adapter. Same thing as the ones that are 230v on 115v adapters. How are they able to work properly?

Those are dual voltage models, like my plasma cutter. The way they are built inside, they accpet both, like a laptop adapter can be used in NA and Europe (they list 110/220).

The problem comes when you try to use it. If you run a dual voltage machine on 110. What happens is you limit the power you can get out of the unit.

Take my plasma for example. Its rated at 50 amps. But if you run it on 110 instead of 220, you don’t get 50 amps even if the display says so. You get 35-40 amps output, tops. Manual lays it out.

This is also why 110 units don’t have the “punch” a 220 unit does. Less amps in, less amps out...

The power from the street pole going to your house has 2 power wires with 1 neutral. Each power wire is 110v and you add them together to get the 220v power for the house. The AC current on each 110v is a different wave to make this happen.

How the duel power units work, the transformer inside the machine has 2 coils on the primary input. Each coil is 110v, you add the voltage together to get the 220v for max input. This is done by the plug. The big plug is to identify the 220v power input. On this plug has 2 flat prongs and 1 semicircle prong for a 3 prong 220v plug. The 3 prong 220v plug identifies it for a certain amp rating also, as does a 4 prong 220v plug does too. Your machine has a 3 prong plug so I will explain that one only. So, the 2 flat prongs on the plug for the welder, each is 110v input, since there are 2 then you add them together to get the 220v input. The semicircle prong is there for safety reasons as is called neutral or ground and connects to the case, and if the 2 power wires touch anywhere on the case then this causes a short and blows the breaker, you don't want to touch the machine and get electrocuted.

To use the machine for 110v use, you simply don't use 1 prong on the plug. So, power input is on 1 flat prong going into the machine only and is 110v input. There is usually an adapter plug that plugs into the 220v plug to make this happen and covers the unused flat prong, also covers it because it will still have power on that prong just because how a transformer works from inside the machine for safety.

Oh, when you see 110v or 115v and 220v or 230v AC, they are the same thing. Just is what the power station is producing by their generator and varies from powerstation to powerstation. The 5 volt discrepancy means nothing really.

Hillbilly Offroading wrote:

I went ahead bought 2 units today. Cheap $20 mig off Ebay just to hold me over until the big unit comes in a month. The really nice unit i ordered is for mig/stick/tig. It will be cheaper in the long run I would I hope.

Well, we all buy what we can afford.

That $20 mig isn't a mig. It's just a wire feed welder. IOW, flux core. It can work, it's just not as easy as MIG. you'll be chipping slag just like you would with stick. I'm looking at the duty cycle and it's pretty obvious why it's $20 bucks:



So it's a "130 amp" in it's name, max 120 on the placard with a 10% (!!!!) duty cycle and at half rating (60 amp) it's still only a 35% (!!!!) duty cycle. That's quite poor and speaks to the quality that's probably inside it. I guess you can't expect much for 20 bucks. Honestly, I would probably be half afraid to power it up and/or use it. And for the luvagawd, pop the case off it and make sure the case is properly earthed through the ground wire before you put any power to it. Lord knows what they "short cutted" or cheaped out too much on the inside.  Lots of those Chinese units try to claim "double insulated" and that's why they don't need a third prong in the power cord, but it's almost always a lie. Anything with a metal case pretty much cannot be double insulated. They say it so they can use a cheaper power cord. I'll predict it will weld sheet metal well enough (as a flux core unit) but you can probably forget doing anything like 1/4" steel....

I've never been a big fan of multiprocess machines, especially "import" ones. Some things can be combined, because they are essentially the same power needs. Like a tig/stick combo (that's what my everlast is). But when you start combining things like mig/tig or tig/plasma, that's just a bad idea. You end up sticking too much in the case, then you get airflow/cooling issues, cross talk in circuits and sometimes, one system with flat out electrically kill the other. I didn't look closely at the specs, but I'll wager they're not that impressive either, especially if you paid the 40 bucks I saw on ebay. As with the cheap flux welder you bought, make sure you pull the case off and confirm it is properly earthed through the third prong. Also look around for anything obvious, like loose or broken parts, burn marks, bare wires/connectors and anything else that just looks....wrong.

As to limitations or inaccuracies in the listing, they're numerous.

What you have basically bought is a cheap mig welder. There's no bottle or even a regulator, so get ready to eat a big price tag there. I bought my bottles (500 a piece) and the fill is 90 bucks a shot. Regulators are very pricey, to get one that does what it's supposed to. Proper SCFM is critical with TIG, get it wrong and you just can't get it to weld right. Your reg has to be accurate.

Consumables are going to be a killer too. A couple pound roll of good steel mig wire is going to cost more than you paid for the machine (if you paid 40 bucks).

Stating it will do aluminum is misleading at best. In order to do aluminum, you pretty much need a machine capable of AC, that one is only DC. You can do aluminum with a MIG on DC, but you need a spool gun (I do it with my Lincoln 180). Count on at least a 100 bucks, if you buy something cheap off ebay. If you try to buy something like a lincoln spool gun, get ready to eat a $300-400 bill. If you try to push aluminum wire through a MIG steel liner gun, you will just birdnest and jam.

You will also need to buy another bottle and regulator as you need mix gas (25/75 argon/co2 is most common) to MIG steel (IE: ferrous), but you need 100% argon to do aluminum (non-ferrous). You can't use one for the other, it compromises the weld. You can't use the same regulator either, argon and mix regs calibrate differently.

You're also going to be limited in aluminum welding. Just not enough punch to get into spray mode on thick stuff and thinner stuff will just punch right through. I tend to not so any thinner than 1/8 aluminum when using the LIncoln and spool gun.

Aluminum is the realm of AC tig, not DC mig. Be prepared to scream when you go to look at tungsten electrodes if you plan to use TIG. That's an inverter machine, so you DO NOT want to use 100% tungsten (green). it will just melt and spray into the weld. There are many type of tungsten blend and what you need changes with everything (amperage, material, thickness, etc). I just bought a package of rare earth tungsten blend and it was 50 bucks!I try to stay away from thoriated tungstens, as it's radioactive. It's ok to handle it, it's very low emission. the problems start when you have to grind the point (they all have to be ground to points to be used). Since the thorium is radioactive, when you ground the electrode you make dust and the dust is radioactive. If you breath it, you are risking cancer, so I just don't use it at all. There;s so many blends out there now, thoriated tungsten is almost not needed. But the "old guys" who grew up on transformer boxes (instead of inverter) still like to use it. You also need to select your tungstens by diameter. 1/6, 3/32 and 1/16. Each has it's place and it's mainly due to amperage and/or parent material. Higher amps, thick electrode. Which also means a bigger collet to hold the tungsten int he torch.

The filler rods are not cheap either. Most places (welding shops) only want to sell by the 10 lb box and that's going to run around 100 bucks. The rate you go through rods on tig, you want a 10 lb box anyways. this is another 1/8. 3/32, 1/16 situation. Same reasons as the tungsten. But fo rhte most pat, 3/32 will cover 80% of what you need to do, both tungsten and rod.

They state "3/8" thick aluminum/steel/stainless etc. Yeah, good luck with that with only 185 amps. 3/8" aluminum on DC tig with argon gas isn't going to happen. Just not enough punch to get a puddle going. They used to do it, but htey would use helium as the shielding gas. It was originally termed "heli-arc" before just "TIG". Its an old process and nearly no0one uses it anymore. At least not in a commercial setting. Some aerospace still does, because it can produce extremely high quality welds. But for a average joe in his garage or shed, it's just not practical. either the actual process or the costs involved.

The tig torch also looks a little strange to me. I don't see a trigger and I don't see a foot control. That leaves me wondering how you control it. 2t/4t seems to indicate it CAN take a pedal, but given the other misleading statements, I'm skeptical. Even with just a gun trigger, you will need up/down slope controls/pre/post flow and on and on. A foot pedal takes much of that out of the equation, because you don't need to have the machine do it through settings, you do it by hammering or backing off the pedal.

There's no balance and freq settings because that's an AC function. Balance an freq are critical settings to tig weld aluminum, but it's also only on an AC machine. You'll be able to do stuff with it, but not what they are telling you in the auction.

But, like I said before; you buy what you can afford and do the best you can with it. That's not a dig or a put down, it's just the way it is. Can't spend what you don't have. Ebay stuff is always a crap shoot. You may get a unit that works for 10 years or you may get one that lasts 10 minutes......and you almost always find that what you get is not exactly what you thought you were getting.....

@TourMax Yes its junk. It's quite obvious.  All it is for is to hold me over. Theres a good chance it's a scam since its actually a $80-$110 welder. The heads tip even grounds the hole system out for ya and throwssparks at ya. "Well, we all buy what we can afford." All your being is a show off with what your can do with your pay check and how your wording is in all your replays. I dont appreciate being talked down to. I do apologize for being rude but your get under my skin. Anyone can read the description on specs. This thread wasn't created to write a book. I was needing help, thoughts, opinions, recommendations from anyone willing to help. By the way the big unit I just bought was $538. I felt like I needed to get that of my chest and I never get like this so sorry.