Top Tractor Challenge 2020 discussion

Mistermodified1 has brought up a good point, after the great success of the 2019 Top Tractor Challenge there are a lot of new machine builds in the works for the 2020 season to be crowned the top tractor. So my question to you is, what do you think it takes to have a top tractor? Let’s make this technical, what engines, what transaxles, what tires? What chassis should you start with? What modifications are necessity and which are optional?

I’m going to start this thread off with you need a solid chassis that does not flex wether you build a custom chassis or you strengthen the stock one. I believe you need an ohv single cylinder with some mods or a twin cylinder (me personally I prefer a Briggs vanguard v twin) as far as axles I believe you need a peerless 820, 633a, 2300,
Cub cadet trans or a wheel horse trans. As for tires I believe 23in to a 27in is the sweet spot.

This is just my opinion, but I’m curious to start a discussion and get your opinion

First off, I'd like to say I thought the way you had the courses set up was pretty spot on as far as how tight they were. Having some sweeping bends and more open areas is nice too, but a few tight spots level things out for everyone and I think that in itself would prevent you from going all out on a go cart with a tractor hood. I think too open of a course would be a big advantage to the faster machines, which would kinda leave out the guys with slower tractors. Having obstacles to go around or over before speed can get up too high levels things up more for everyone, which I thought was good.

I think if you have a fast machine and also it can get through really tough obstacles, then you've got a pretty good build. For example if you built something for all out speed, then it's no good if you can't get over a log. So you've gotta choose wisely how your going to build it to make it through the tough spots but also be fairly quick in between. You've got to have a well rounded machine to have the top tractor, and I think more or less the courses this year were decent at sorting that out.

My plan for a new build focuses on the fact that mr.studabaker won the event with an 800lb cub cadet with a cast iron engine on it. Pretty impressive! So I figured, if I had a machine that was lighter and with more power, but the same ability on obstacles, then I'd have a winning machine. On my current simplicity, I know it's pretty top heavy for speed over rough stuff (as most tractors are). So I think low center of gravity is the way to go. I plan on focusing a lot on moving any weight as low as possible. I figure the lower the weight is, the more stable it's going to be not only on turns but also going over stuff. Also, in between each turn and obstacle you've gotta get back up to speed. The lighter the machine, the quicker you can get moving again. Also the faster you can stop and get around turns. Less weight is the same as more power, better brakes, and better suspension. So that's going to be very important in my next build. The only question is, how far can I cut things down before it starts to affect the ability to get over obstacles? Get hung up for 20 seconds and you just lost to the guy who got right over it. So you've gotta be careful what you do and how far you go.

Ooooo technical discussion I love technical discussions . I agree with mr. modified, I think the courses you laid out should pretty much be the standard. They are tight and tough enough to keep a fx type racing mower from being any sort of competitive, the course demands a truly capable tractor, as MM said, if you get stuck on a obstacle that could easily be the difference between winning and losing. I think the winning tractor has to be tough, as in solid construction through out, so that you can be aggressive on obstacles and not fear bending a frame,axle, steering arm etc. also less weight the better but I’m less concerned with weight loss as we all got handly beaten by a tractor that was double the weight of some of the tractors, the key was his weight was down low, and every thing was failure proof. I think to win you need a rock solid rig with good tires 18 to 25 ish hp and a tight turning radius

I wasn't there, just saw vids, but this is my experience... the LT tractors I have with ATV tires will make it over obstacles in the woods way easier than the garden tractors.  The ride is punishing, and the components, especially steering are very weak in comparison. So it pretty much common offroading knowledge, that it is best to lighten up the pig.

With that being said I would build on something which I would consider a lighter duty "garden tractor"...
A tractor like a simplicity 6200 series (tractormatic LSD), my Gilson GT14E peerless 2300, or a Deere 262 6sp tuff torq.  They are all heavy duty but not "overbuilt" like a cub cadet, and already have stout components.  I would build on one of them to have the top end speed and still be able to creep in 1st gear, plus keep the weight down.

I guess if your machine can handle a variety of terrain, then that's what makes it most impressive to me. Something that does everything pretty well. Even though it might not be possible to build to do everything 100%, I think if you can get semi close then your doing a good job.

mr.modified wrote:

First off, I'd like to say I thought the way you had the courses set up was pretty spot on as far as how tight they were. Having some sweeping bends and more open areas is nice too, but a few tight spots level things out for everyone

I agree 100% with that.


My thoughts of having a Top Tractor.
BRAKES...Got to have them and some good ones at that. Then pick the direction of the build style and when building it just making sure everthing works together.  (I.e. don't need a mower that's turns spot on but is super slow.)

I still got a lot of work to do to mine to get everything working together but I thought it preformed fairly well.

Brakes are a good thing to have. That's one thing that seems like everyone has a different idea on. Doesn't seem to be a super great and easy, one size fits all solution for it.

I was thinking and had an idea. What if after each person runs through a section of the event, they keep their time and or score/distance ect marked on a card which they keep with them. Not a super necessary thing really but the advantage would be, as a back up in case the recorded times get lost or messed up. And also to add some more BS factor to the situation while the other entrants stand around to wait their turn to run. Instead of everyone asking who had what time, it would be easier to go over and talk to someone about how they did without interrupting the people doing the times and trying to keep things straight. Especially if there might be a few more entrants next year.

Not a huge thing but just a thought.

But that could lead to the possibility of someone marking their card wrong intentionally and then arguing with the staff about their time. Not saying anyone WOULD do that, but have to think of the possibilities.

I like your idea, but what about more of a scoreboard type setup that’s updated after every run. Something for everyone to see

True someone could put in their own time. I guess the guys at the finish would mark it for you maybe.

Score board type thing would be cool. But mostly everyone is spread out in different areas for most of the day. I just like the idea of knowing where I'm at in relation to everyone else while it's going on. Just so you can see how close you are.

Score board can be had for next year I like that idea. Pre made score board for each event or maybe there is an app that self aligns the scores in order? And at the end of the event then it is written onto the score board for that event. I’ll make it happen for next year

That would be pretty cool. That reminds me, I apologize for spilling the info about the top couple of spots for this years event since you planned on keeping it quiet till the videos came out. I just figured most of us knew anyway and didn't realize it.

And speaking of video footage. Maybe some of us could get some on board for next year or something. I could possible bring my go pro and maybe rig it to different machines for various courses (if the entrants want to) and then I could just leave the sd card with you guys. Maybe get a couple clips off of it at least. Or if it happened to catch a crash, you'd have some on board from it too.

score board is a really cool idea, and Im sure theres a app we could repurpose to share/keep score. I use livelaps for motorcycle racing, Im sure they have something similar for phones. Id be down to help video next year too, I meant to do up a good vid for my channel, then forgot my gopro and basically was mad about it so I decided to skip it.

@mr.modified no problem about spilling details everyone kinda new, I just didn’t want anyone to film the whole entire event and post their videos before I did myself,

I’m 100% on board with anyone that wants to do on board footage to add that to the videos, I may pick up another go pro myself just for that reason

And score board is also a go

You guys all have great points.  For me its all about seat time and knowing your ride and fixing what broke better then it was before.  Spent all summer on Keizer turning crazy tight corners all the while trying to break everything on it in preparation for the beating Keizer was going to take.  Tires are a huge plus both front and back, knowing how your ride turns and what it can and cannot do is a must, a high idle setting to keep momentum going, a good clutch and a go faster pedal.  HP was not an issue on the course; traction, momentum and steering was.  Brakes where needed in the faster sections and may be more important next year.  All these played out whilst walking the course.  Knowing what gear to be in and where to turn and how hard to hit an obstacle is a huge plus.

Regards,
Mister Studabaker

Exactly. Big twin engines and lightweight machines are not what you need (not that it's a bad idea, it's just not a necessity)... You just have to know your tractors limits and how to drive it. For example: I knew exactly what was possible with my red Murray that I drove for 2 years, but the Mountain Murray, I'm still pretty uncomfortable with it since I've barely even used it. Just know what's possible with your rig and how to get it to preform like that.

Just my 2 cents...

I'm worried about hearing the "Ready, Set, Go" next year with ear plugs and my new exhaust system. Maybe we could have a flag or visual hand signal also just for good measure.

@mr.modified yes I agree, I want flags and signals

Nice. To ebay for a flag set lol.

Or get a super custom 2020 Top Tractor Challenge logo flag. Gonna use the same logo but with a different color for next year?

@mr.modified I haven’t decided yet, I don’t like the solid logo on the back of the shirt, it looks good but it makes you super sweaty

I noticed that a bit. Kinda stiff. I figured it will work in after awhile.

redzz02 wrote:

@mr.modified yes I agree, I want flags and signals

Starter pistols. Flare guns. Smoke signals???



Im really looking forward to seeing what everyone comes up with the knock Keizer off the throne.
Watch out Studebaker, the wolves are coming for you!

Or have a fancy green light on a hand held switch hooked up to a 12v battery.

Something like these guys are using kinda sorta.

I was thinking if you wanted to save space and also set up time, you could run some of the courses backwards to get a 2nd course out of it. In some cases I know there had been some loose dirt on the down hill side of some obstacles which might get torn up if you ran them in reverse, so that would have to be figured in of course.

Another idea would be to possibly link two of the obstacle courses together and run one into the next. For example, you would have everyone do course Number 1 for example, then course number 2. Then for course 3, you run both 1 and 2 hooked together, possibly in reverse direction. It would just be something different and save on some setup time.

I think it would be cool to set up a longer course at the hill climb area, there was a couple hill options maybe make the course hit both of them and then do a short little trail loop maybe over some logs or mud or something. Just spitballing here