Murraymountain's Mountain Murray

OK, I think I can put some #420 chain to replace it. A little heavier duty. But now I have another problem.... This trans could be nothing more than parts... #1, it's missing one axle bearing and that one leaked, so chances are the other one leaks as well. #2, the shift keys are rounded off (some worse than others, but they are all rounded to some degree). And #3, 80% of the gears are gouged pretty badly... Here are the shift keys...




So yeah, I'll have to get new shift keys. But here is my main concern...





If you look hard enough you can see what I'm talking about (You shouldn't have to look hard to notice, but still). If you run your fingernail across it, it catches on just about everything. I'm assuming this trans has lots of hours on it. So this is where I need your input... Will the gears being in this condition hurt the way it runs? I would expect that it could junk itself a lot faster than one that didn't have gears like this. Do you guys think this trans is worth running or not?

The gears are fine. Looks like machine marks from when the gears were made. The sides really don't matter because they are keyed to the shafts one way or another and really don't rub up against each other like you are thinking. As long as the lube is clean then you should be good. You can probably save the shift keys by grinding the one side that is worn to where it is flat. And do that to all 4 shift keys to where they are the same thickness, so when the keys engage into the notches then all four keys are up against the sides evenly.

Keys are also available new on ebay.

If you're talking about outer axle bearings, you're looking for part no 1641RS, they're fairly common and cheap.

Gears look fine, so long as there's no broken teeth they'll work.

prancstaman wrote:

The gears are fine. Looks like machine marks from when the gears were made. The sides really don't matter because they are keyed to the shafts one way or another and really don't rub up against each other like you are thinking. As long as the lube is clean then you should be good. You can probably save the shift keys by grinding the one side that is worn to where it is flat. And do that to all 4 shift keys to where they are the same thickness, so when the keys engage into the notches then all four keys are up against the sides evenly.

They are without a doubt not machine marks. I know what you're talking about and they are definitely not what I normally see on gears. Not sure about the lube, it was Bentonite grease up until about a week ago. Something definitely has been chewing them up for sure. You'd need to see it in person to understand how bad it is. If it was going to stay stock then I wouldn't care much, but when these gears are pushing the tractor at a minimum of a 40 MPH, I'm not so sure how they'd hold up... Still on the fence about using this trans.

The shift key thing might work. How do you think they'd hold up to 40 MPH?

RichieRichOverdrive wrote:

Keys are also available new on ebay.

If you're talking about outer axle bearings, you're looking for part no 1641RS, they're fairly common and cheap.

Gears look fine, so long as there's no broken teeth they'll work.

Yeah I was looking for those bearings. If I use this trans then I'll get me some.

No, no broken teeth, but they are damaged slightly. It looks like someone took a knife and beat the top of the teeth with it. My most mainest concern is the 40 MPH minimum though. If these gears aren't gonna get in the way of achieving that speed, then I'll run this trans. If they are, then I'll part it out.

Okay, been doing thinking, I'll disclose those plans later on if it's what I want to do though. But for now, the 820 will not be used. I'm gonna put it all back together and use it for a stock mower.


In the meantime, it decided to give me belt issues on Friday and I ended up getting a bigger belt, adjusting the clutch, replacing a pulley, bending belt guides, all the good stuff. There's a reason I flip it over when I'm gonna work on the underside for a little while. After I got that all sorted, I thrashed it around to make sure it wasn't gonna break today. Right when I was about to park it and load it on the trailer, TONS (literally tons) of smoke started pouring out from under the dash. I am thoroughly convinced that there was a fire. And it was right under the gas tank (exactly why Ole Blue's tank got moved to the back). Anyway, I now do not have ambers, headlights, side markers, or a horn. Anyway, I have no idea when I'll get it fixed. It blew up 2 switches and literally blew the insulation off the wires like lightning does to the bark of a tree.




Here's the main damage...




Anyway, I honestly don't care right now. All I wanted was to actually get it to stay in operating condition since the tractors are headed off the property for the first time...





We're headed to Rockcrusher!

Alrighty, we are back. Trail 1 was the easiest (which is the only one I went on) and it was BRUTAL. The GT6000 blew the gearbox when it was only 5 minutes in. The stamped frame is actually intact, and the MM made it through the entire 40min trail. I then did jumps with it, and then I took it on the motorcross track. I made it maybe a quarter before I hit a hard bump and the already impaired front end just gave out. So the front end has to be replaced.



Don't have any pics of when it broke, but here's the aftermath...









I am proud of this damage!

Anyway, I am planning fixing the electricals and hope to make them safer, I have to cut the engine plate and front axle mounting plate off because it's welded. I will be stealing the death trap's engine plate and front mount and the death trap will hopefully be getting this one................ Think about that when it hits a 30ft jump...

I already pulled the needed parts off the death trap.





And here's a video from just after the electrical fire and the aftermath of Rockcrusher...



The MM will get it's revenge!

Okay, 2 cutting wheels for the grinder and a bunch of time cutting through the welds later, the engine plate and front end mount has been replaced... I actually put the bad one on the death trap and beat the living crap out of it with the sledge hammer... It is now somewhat straight... Still super crappy... but it don't matter since it's on the death trap. Anyway, she's a full roller again!



Gonna drop 'er at the fab shop tomorrow so they can weld the plates back on. After that I'll fix the wiring, put the tank back in, and pop the motor back on and hit the trails again!

But anyway, there is very little left to do on Ole Blue's motor, so as soon as I finish that motor, the Kohler build starts... I started sorting and cleaning parts today...




Hopefully it won't be at the fab shop too long so I can get back on the trails soon.

Built a transmission work station today!



It's about 6 foot long and it somehow is big enough to do 2 transmissions at once. But anyway, the reason the 820 is up on the bench is because it will not be used in this thing let alone any offroad mower. It's just way too rough. So it's documentary will be continued in the Lawn Tractor Repair thread. I'm going to just slap it back together so that it works like it should and stick it in the parts pile as a spare.



Still waiting on the fab shop for the frame. As soon as I get it back together I'm just gonna send it in 5th gear up the best jump I can find! But I may put a tie rod on it this time. I don't expect anything to fail now, but just because, I'll probably just try and throw one on anyway.

Okay, got it back finally. For the last time too. I got ripped off today. $75 for $20 worth of work. I guess it's time to order the Lincoln Tombstone er somethin. Anyway, now that we know the MM's days at the fab shop are over, lets get in to what's going on with the machine. I pulled all the wiring since it pretty much is ruined from the fire. Some stuff is reusable and some isn't. Anyway...



This little piggy had a seizure...



Nice and empty...



Anyway, now that the Briggs build is finished up, it's time to start on the Kohler! AKA, money pit.



The most professional majestic $75 welds on the face of the earth.



At least there's no jump in all the world that could break those welds.

Anyway, I think she'll be back up and about around Saturday!



And here's the same update in the form of a video....

Got it all tied back together... Used 11 zip ties to keep it all from becoming a rat nest. It's decently clean compared to what it was before...



Everything works except for the headlight. It needs a new toggle switch. Anyway, after really messing around with the hood latch, it finally latches right. SHE'S BACK IN THE GAME BOYS....




The steering is much MUCH more responsive. If you just touch the steering wheel it goes whichever way you turned it reeaal fast. SUPER responsive!

Thought I'd give a little update. The MM has been very well lately. A little rattly but considering the abuse that it goes through every time I drive it, I can't blame it. I did get a brand new battery for it believe it or not. Still not sure whether I believe it or not yet.



Anyway, I had a little accidenty...




Bark sticking out of the bead from impact...



That front right took some SERIOUS impact. Surprised I didn't bust or bend a spindle. The steering is holding up fantastic on hard impacts.



Ooof.



So yeah, other than the right front that keeps going flat, she's doin great!

Well, the MM has been doing alright. I had an issue with the belt coming off when you start it, let alone trying to drive it. So I ended up adding a 6th pulley underneath. It's not throwing it now, but man that drive system screams. Oh, and now, no matter how lightly you let off the clutch, it's always a clutch dump.



That is all from just this month. Plus you have to count all the insane bumps and wheelies I hit off camera. You can see how much abuse it takes. More than 90% of the Craftsmans I've seen can't handle this much abuse. The only thing I think RCG has on me abuse wise is the clutch dumps. I've never dumped the clutch at more than 3rd gear half throttle. Fearless, well other than blasting through a mud hole at 469MPH, the MM has taken just as much abuse and maybe more. I don't hold the throttle wide open as long as Chud does, but I go full RPM very often. And all that is taking it's toll. The drive system is always screaming of pain, the motor is super unresponsive and barely makes 8K RPM when not under a load (it used to hit 9 I believe. At least 8.5). The motor is just plain tired. And with the information I've been receiving, I've decided to give the MM a revamp. Not gonna give it a whole buncha new features, I just want to get it 100% reliable. I don't know what the point is if I can't get my hands on gasoline (don't ask), but still.



So here's the plan. This is going to take Ole Blue's spot for the time being....

- NEW ENGINE. 12 horse Kohler.

- New tires (maybe not new fronts, but at least better than what I have.)

- Frame reinforcements

- Get drive system flawless

- Clean up trans

- Tighten up the loose steering gears

And then whatever other little things come with a revamp. The other issue with this is that it'll be on a budget. I don't know what the budget is, but I'll know when to stop putting money into it. Also, I kinda wanna keep this thing operational as much as possible. This ought to be interesting.

I'm looking at tires right now... tell me which one it needs to be....

I have those bottom ones on my mower.  They seem good.  Ultimately it is up to you.

Those are kind of the ones I was wanting too. Not sure if I can afford brand new tires for this yet, so I'm still deciding. I think I'm gonna get another set of Turfs all the way around and just cut the treads. The way the tires on the stamped frame preform disproves the saying "anything's better than turfs," so I think that would be the best bang for the buck.

I'm having an issue with the engine stuff...

Option 1: Rebuild the Kohler

It needs the block honed, rings, starter, possibly flywheel and alternator (I can get those cheap), upper and lower main seals, and a breather hose.

Option 2: Rebuild the Briggs

I know it needs a con rod and a crank. Issues, it has the stupid AVS in it whereas the Kohler has the 3rd gear to balance it. So I would think the Kohler would be less likely to blow out the back of the block.

The issue, they both need more money than I want to put in to them. I've already got $40 in the Kohler and $50 in the Briggs.

I think I'm still gonna go with the Kohler mainly because I really want to build one and see how it does. And it seems to need the same amount of money as the Briggs (maybe a little more), but I think it'll take more RPM than the 15 horse. We'll see.

Message deleted. (reposted previous post).

Whichever is cheaper. Lol

Okay, so I can't go through with the revamp just yet. I have a feeling Ole Blue will be done before any revamp happens. It's gonna take more money than I can put in to it right now. I'm also back in school and that takes up 90% of my day, so it leaves me no time to work on it. My priorities are mainly the L111 and the 4 Wheeler because it doesn't need much to be reliable. And at the moment it's the only thing of mine running good so I'm stuck with that. Besides Tuesday's after 5 I have to get up early and work till 10 AM to get any thing done. So right now I can't do anything with this except let it sit until I can actually work on it. Anyway, here's a video I did for it yesterday.

MM update 8/18/2020

@AllisKidD21...........

Would you just look at that PowerMore. What an engineering marvel that is.

Are they actually decent or is that sarcasm?

AllisKidD21 wrote:

Would you just look at that PowerMore. What an engineering marvel that is.

A sight to behold ain't it? The dipstick tube is somehow attractive to snails...


LOL, we gonna find out just how much of a marvel it is that's for sure. Everyone make your bets on how long this motor will last.

CraftsmanQuad19 wrote:

Are they actually decent or is that sarcasm?

I don't think anyone really knows. I actually think it's gonna do fairly decent as a ATLT motor, but if not, I'm just gonna laugh at it's death. They come straight from China so I like trash talking them. Once the Briggs goes on the MM, then we'll see just how good it really is. Can't wait to start abusing it. I bought it from my brother for $30 last night since it needs way less work than the Kohler and it seems like it'll be a fun engine swap and a lot of fun to beat on. Might make a couple people shake their heads in disappointment, but like I said in the video, I would even be willing to try a Courage single out if I had one laying around. In the end I want a V-twin for this but for now, we're gonna see if the Powermore lives up to it's name.

But until it proves itself otherwise, I'm gonna keep trash talking it.

New Powerplant

It's been a little while since the last update hasn't it? Jeez. So I guess in the last update I was kinda saying that the MM was hurting pretty good. Or maybe I was saying it got parked because the clutch died? I don't know. Everything that happened to the MM while I was gone will be in the video. This post will just be the main stuff since so much happened. Anywho in the picture above, it got parked there for that week mainly because the clutch had to be rebuilt. Later on I moved it down to a shed where it sat for about a month. I pulled it up to the barn about 2 months ago to fix 'er up. SO, anyway, long story short I pulled the entire drive system apart. All the pullies came off and so did the original clutch plate. I completely rebuilt the drive system and tried out a 3" on the rear. That a was fail. Completely messed up the gear ratios and made the tranny scream. Just wasn't worth the risk, so I went back to 4" and a new belt. WAY better.




I can't tell since it's been a while since I did this, but I believe that's the 3" inch in the above picture. So yes, I finally did something about the belt rubbing on the shifter. I've changed the pullies back to the original 4" and got a smaller idler the next day (will be in the video) but still, it's the same concept. I've got 7 pullies on it now, a little bit excessive but sadly necessary. I also added belt guards. I already had them in the rear, so I readjusted those and added these on the front...




So as you can see, they are quite effective. One new belt, and it hasn't thrown it or slipped since. It does leave kinda hard when the belt is cold and it's still a little louder than perfect, but other than that, the clutch setup is finally working correctly. SO, after that I went to the junk heap of tires we have, pulled out 2 wheels that had good bushings and good tread, bought some tubes and had them installed, and now it's got new fronts too.



The old ones were so bad the wheel bushings were literally falling out...




I gotta say, these new wheels, even though they're turfs, they make a heck of a difference. They grip way better. They were waaaaaay over inflated from when they put the tubes in them and they were super stiff, so once I let the pressure out, they softened up some. It was like riding on hard plastic wheels before I let the air out. Definitely helped.

I also "rebuilt" the seat. It was waaaay too uncomfortable with all the new stuff. And now that I got spoiled with the ATV with suspension, I really hated driving this thing. So I redid my spring setup, and then I tore the seat apart to see why it felt like I was sitting on bricks. That's when I found the Grand Canyon...




I already knew this was like this when I built it in the build off, but still. I just didn't see it being an issue, which it pretty much hasn't been.



Anyway, I did the right thing and cut out the canyon and pulled some foam from the death traps seat and filled the canyon with that and put the seat back together. MUUUUUUCH better I tell ya.




So that's the gist of what's happened to 'er lately. So let's get into some action. To start it off, the moment I finished up the clutch, I romped it for maybe 20 minutes testing it and everything. So I get brave and about drown it a second time. There's a mud hole in the creek right beside like a 6 foot water hole. I tried it with the ATV not thinking about it and got stuck instantly. That was a nightmare getting that thing out. That story will be in the ATV update. But anyway, I thought, "okay so I got stuck because I was barely moving to begin with. If I just get some more speed I should have a pretty good chance." Yeah that was great theory I must say. It did not go planned. It's all in the video......






And here's some photos from the past few months...










Already got some snow. It was gone in 2 hours, but it was enough to do some sick drifts in. Video below the picture.



MM Drifts in Snow

So yeah, it's pretty dialed in now. She preforms like a champ for what she is. I think I've said before that it'll never be as good as Ole Blue (which it won't), but than I just have an extra mud mower that I won't use. Well, I think what's gonna happen to the MM is this. (It's come back from beater status (but I'm still gonna beat on it)). The MM is more of a test dummy. With the talk of putting several different engines on it to see how they do, and there's also been talk of IFS using the original Murray axle and independent rear suspension (which is most likely gonna happen), I think that's really what it is. I won't call it a test dummy, but that's pretty much what it is. Whatever works goes on Ole Blue.


The Kohler, as I said in one of the previous videos, went back in a box and sat down there for another 3 months. I put it back on the stand maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago. I've been making slow progress but it's progress. I Polished all the internals and everything, repainted the engine cover (it came out way better than before), unstucked the rings, ordered a full tune up kit, head gasket, fuel pump, and main seals, and I sent the block over to a rebuild shop to get it honed. Sadly it got over-honed so it's gonna have some piston slap unless I decide to go with an oversized piston. So yes, on top of everything that's happened lately, the Kohler will be coming alive within a few months as well.






But anyway, the MM has been doing great lately. It stays parked in the shed Ole Blue has been hibernating in and it even has it's own battery. I don't use it too often since I've been trying to dial in the ATV but this ol' girl is ready to bust up some trails!

Welp, I got the block back. It did get over-honed. So now it's gonna have about as much piston slap as Ole Blue because I don't want to get another piston. But it has good compression. I put JB weld on a long crack on the side of the block. It seems to be timed right and everything. I was able to get all the internals assembled the first day. Yesterday I managed to completely port and polish the head, shave the head just a very VERY tiny bit, lap the valves and fully assemble the head, install the head, install the side tins, and install the coil and kill wire. I am now waiting for the main seals, flywheel, oil drain cap, and starter. Once I get those and jet the carb, I can finish putting it together and see how she runs. Should be done this month!

That one of those kohler bucket engines?

No this is a Command. The good one. Lol.