bought a John Deere just to take a look at the power steering

Hi,

I was buying a bunch of mowers at a farm auction and bought a John Deere just because I could see the power steering cylinder and I wanted to copy it to my contest build.  Seeing something in person and taking measurements turns out better then just look at schematics.

Picture of me pulling it through the yard at dark 30 to unload my uhaul truck and trailer.  I do like my wide body Murrays, they earn their keep.



Turns out it is a John Deere 335 with a 5 lug K71 hydro

I think I know what the problem is that scrapped it, bad ignition module.  I think the gossamer plastic hoods go, then the ignition system or electrical follows.  I have recently bought 2-3 JD at auction and they all had missing hoods. You can tell they broke because of the shards left behind and attached.



My total costs for the mower (price, taxes, fees, gas, uhaul rental 2 days etc.) makes this a $117.39 score.



The 23" tires are in pretty good shape too. Still holding air.

That looks like the exact mower I pulled the heavy duty 25mm spindle front axle from for my wheel horse build. It had caught fire and been scrapped by someone. The steering was definitely full hydraulic, from what little I messed with it before I ripped the front end out. Seems like you have almost no steering with the engine off.

What hp motor is that?

> Seems like you have almost no steering with the engine off.

Probably, that is why Federal law pretty much prohibits full hydro or electric steering on passenger vehicles, as you always have to have a 2nd means of manual steering with the engine off. I figured if it is full hydro I have some excellent parts to grab, if it is only hydro assist, then I can see how it is set up.

> What hp motor is that?

20 HP Kawasaki twin V 675 CC

If it is as well built as my neighbor's Fr651v 22.0 HP , I probably should be able to start it. The other JD with the 14 HP I posted about my build, after a few weeks of messing with it, since it appeared not to have been started since 2013 going by the battery date code, I got it to turn over. Compression test showed at least 110 psi ! So, I know it's worth a carb and fuel pump.

Them Deeres part out for a healthy sum too. Those rears and rims are probably worth 3/4 of what you paid alone.

Those tufftorq k71s are pretty good transaxles I have a k57 in tankerbell it hasn't given me any trouble (granted she stays broke down lol)

JB_4x4 wrote:

> Seems like you have almost no steering with the engine off.

Probably, that is why Federal law pretty much prohibits full hydro or electric steering on passenger vehicles, as you always have to have a 2nd means of manual steering with the engine off.  I figured if it is full hydro I have some excellent parts to grab, if it is only hydro assist, then I can see how it is set up.

> What hp motor is that?

20 HP Kawasaki twin V 675 CC

If it is as well built as my neighbor's Fr651v 22.0 HP , I probably should be able to start it.  The other JD with the 14 HP I posted about my build, after a few weeks of messing with it, since it appeared not to have been started since 2013 going by the battery date code, I got it to turn over.  Compression test showed at least 110 psi !   So, I know it's worth a carb and fuel pump.

20hp sounds like FUN! I've got a 24hp Intek, but it's in my dedicated grass cutter...

> Them Deeres part out for a healthy sum too.

On CL people seem to want more for the Deere stuff , though if I sell anything it will be for a Craftsman price.

> Those tufftorq k71s are pretty good transaxles

I was hoping for a locker, but, I don't see one .

> 20hp sounds like FUN!

Especially if I like the hydraulic setup, I might put a Front End Loader on this one. I was looking at some Chinese self-propelled dump buggies with FEL and realized their bucket design is worth copying.

Though the axle and motor in a Murray wide body might be a ton of fun if I ditch the JD. I am going to take pictures of everything, lay out the hydraulic setup, then post them here.

Ifitaintbroke wrote:

JB_4x4 wrote:

> Seems like you have almost no steering with the engine off.

Probably, that is why Federal law pretty much prohibits full hydro or electric steering on passenger vehicles, as you always have to have a 2nd means of manual steering with the engine off.  I figured if it is full hydro I have some excellent parts to grab, if it is only hydro assist, then I can see how it is set up.

> What hp motor is that?

20 HP Kawasaki twin V 675 CC

If it is as well built as my neighbor's Fr651v 22.0 HP , I probably should be able to start it.  The other JD with the 14 HP I posted about my build, after a few weeks of messing with it, since it appeared not to have been started since 2013 going by the battery date code, I got it to turn over.  Compression test showed at least 110 psi !   So, I know it's worth a carb and fuel pump.

20hp sounds like FUN! I've got a 24hp Intek, but it's in my dedicated grass cutter...

Yeah we have the 25 in our JD and it sucks, 25hp in a 48" machine literally means it eats more fuel then a dodge lol.
Not sure if anyone else has numbers to compare but the 10L fuel tank lasts barely 2.5 hours

Probably a variety of things and just not the 25 HP. It take a bit of HP to swing big blades at a high tip speed, coupled with what is probably a +10cc pump hydro,plus, it probably weighs close to 1,000# if you look up the data.

My neighbor's Toro ZTR 22hp fr651 with a 42" deck does pretty well on gas. I think it probably gets the same fuel usage as my Craftsman auto B&S 14.5 HP with 42" deck. I know it's a fairly small tank, but, doing just my small front lawn takes almost 3/4 of a tank with the Craftsman.

When the 17 HP Kohler was running ... I noticed a huge difference - it really sucked down gas compared to my 12.5 HP B&S.

That might be an interesting test, to run two engines, exactly the same sized pulley and see which used more gas doing the same amount of work and driving. I might try that on a wide body Murray since it is fairly easy to get at all but one bolt.

My 22 horse briggs ELS on my huskee is very fuel efficient. It mowed a whole decent sized backyard of that thick thick grass in the image I uploaded and used ~half a gallon. It also runs really well, starts up as soon as I turn the key.

JB_4x4 wrote:

Probably a variety of things and just not the 25 HP.  It take a bit of HP to swing big blades at a high tip speed, coupled with what is probably a +10cc pump hydro,plus, it probably weighs close to 1,000# if you look up the data.

My neighbor's Toro ZTR 22hp fr651 with a 42" deck does pretty well on gas.  I think it probably gets the same fuel usage as my Craftsman auto B&S 14.5 HP with 42" deck. I know it's a fairly small tank, but, doing just my small front lawn takes almost 3/4 of a tank with the Craftsman.

When the 17 HP Kohler was running ... I noticed a huge difference - it really sucked down gas compared to my 12.5 HP B&S.

That might be an interesting test, to run two engines, exactly the same sized pulley and see which used more gas doing the same amount of work and driving.  I might try that on a wide body Murray since it is fairly easy to get at all but one bolt.

Would be cool to do it with a bunch of engines actually
Those briggs singles just sip on the fuel, I've always found them to be great on gas, vanguards too, inteks are ok at best.

As for tip speed, she's running decent pulley size but I would like a way higher tip speed, you really have to crawl around with that thing to avoid a bad cut, one bonus is that intek literally never bogs at all, I would almost just prefer a 16hp vanguard in that thing, would be way cheaper to run.

TechnoChicken wrote:

JB_4x4 wrote:

Probably a variety of things and just not the 25 HP.  It take a bit of HP to swing big blades at a high tip speed, coupled with what is probably a +10cc pump hydro,plus, it probably weighs close to 1,000# if you look up the data.

My neighbor's Toro ZTR 22hp fr651 with a 42" deck does pretty well on gas.  I think it probably gets the same fuel usage as my Craftsman auto B&S 14.5 HP with 42" deck. I know it's a fairly small tank, but, doing just my small front lawn takes almost 3/4 of a tank with the Craftsman.

When the 17 HP Kohler was running ... I noticed a huge difference - it really sucked down gas compared to my 12.5 HP B&S.

That might be an interesting test, to run two engines, exactly the same sized pulley and see which used more gas doing the same amount of work and driving.  I might try that on a wide body Murray since it is fairly easy to get at all but one bolt.

Would be cool to do it with a bunch of engines actually
Those briggs singles just sip on the fuel, I've always found them to be great on gas, vanguards too, inteks are ok at best.

As for tip speed, she's running decent pulley size but I would like a way higher tip speed, you really have to crawl around with that thing to avoid a bad cut, one bonus is that intek literally never bogs at all, I would almost just prefer a 16hp vanguard in that thing, would be way cheaper to run.

My 20hp vanguard is OK on gas, By far the most fuel efficient tractor I have ever seen is my 10 horsepower Honda it will go forever

I have one Briggs Oppy that sips. (dirty rat)  Don't ask why or how.  My others eat it a lot more.  I found out that my Kohler M18 is a flat out gas-a-holic.  When I took my tractors riding a couple weeks ago, the briggs single was probably down little over a pint, but the Kohler was down about a gallon and a half.

Oppys are weird about gas. Running with a stock carb, they absolutely gulp gas. With the slide carbs on mutt, fuel consumption hasn’t been so bad. Maybe the slide carbs are more efficient or something. I know the stock carbs seem to be on the rich side.

MightyRaze wrote:

I have one Briggs Oppy that sips. (dirty rat)  Don't ask why or how.  My others eat it a lot more.  I found out that my Kohler M18 is a flat out gas-a-holic.  When I took my tractors riding a couple weeks ago, the briggs single was probably down little over a pint, but the Kohler was down about a gallon and a half.

Oh I always suspected those big kohlers were made by dodge, they can really suck down the gas.

RichieRichOverdrive wrote:

Oppys are weird about gas. Running with a stock carb, they absolutely gulp gas. With the slide carbs on mutt, fuel consumption hasn’t been so bad. Maybe the slide carbs are more efficient or something. I know the stock carbs seem to be on the rich side.

Yeah mine sucks quite a bit.

TechnoChicken wrote:

Ifitaintbroke wrote:

JB_4x4 wrote:

> Seems like you have almost no steering with the engine off.

Probably, that is why Federal law pretty much prohibits full hydro or electric steering on passenger vehicles, as you always have to have a 2nd means of manual steering with the engine off.  I figured if it is full hydro I have some excellent parts to grab, if it is only hydro assist, then I can see how it is set up.

> What hp motor is that?

20 HP Kawasaki twin V 675 CC

If it is as well built as my neighbor's Fr651v 22.0 HP , I probably should be able to start it.  The other JD with the 14 HP I posted about my build, after a few weeks of messing with it, since it appeared not to have been started since 2013 going by the battery date code, I got it to turn over.  Compression test showed at least 110 psi !   So, I know it's worth a carb and fuel pump.

20hp sounds like FUN! I've got a 24hp Intek, but it's in my dedicated grass cutter...

Yeah we have the 25 in our JD and it sucks, 25hp in a 48" machine literally means it eats more fuel then a dodge lol.
Not sure if anyone else has numbers to compare but the 10L fuel tank lasts barely 2.5 hours

My intek doesn't suck gas at all. I can cut heavy brush for 5 hours straight and not have to refuel. It's in a Husqvarna that I got for free, and had running in a day.

> By far the most fuel efficient tractor I have ever seen is my 10 horsepower Honda it will go forever

Hopefully this week my 10 HP Snapper will be running and driving. It will be interesting to see how it does on steep hills and how scary it is.

> Maybe the slide carbs are more efficient or something

Okay, never knew that thing existed. Besides costing $120 from ECC, what advantage would a "slide" carb offer me over the cheap Chinese clones from Amazon? The ability to richen the low and high idle?

JB_4x4 wrote:

> By far the most fuel efficient tractor I have ever seen is my 10 horsepower Honda it will go forever

Hopefully this week my 10 HP Snapper will be running and driving.  It will be interesting to see how it does on steep hills and how scary it is.

> Maybe the slide carbs are more efficient or something

Okay, never knew that thing existed.  Besides costing $120 from ECC, what advantage would a "slide" carb offer me over the cheap Chinese clones from Amazon?  The ability to richen the low and high idle?

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a slide carb?

Ifitaintbroke wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a slide carb?

Carburetors commonly found on ATV, Motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc.

You have a round slide




and a flat slide



For lack of proper terminology, instead of butterflies to open the air path, they open a round or flat gate using throttle connection on top to let in air.  They are typically more responsive and configurable.

MightyRaze wrote:

Ifitaintbroke wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a slide carb?

Carburetors commonly found on ATV, Motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc.

You have a round slide




and a flat slide



For lack of proper terminology, instead of butterflies to open the air path, they open a round or flat gate using throttle connection on top to let in air.  They are typically more responsive and configurable.

Seems like that would be less turbulence than a butterfly.

The advantage to them is how tuneable they are across the entire throttle range. You have a changeable low speed jet with a tuneable air screw, a changeable main jet, and then a tapered fuel needle which moves with the slide, that you can move up and down relative to the slide, to tune your midrange.Whole kits of jets are available, as well as differently tapered fuel needles. The slide opening from bottom to top also keeps all the air moving at high speed over where the fuel is pulled, giving better atomization than a butterfly type carb. They are also available with accelerator pumps for even better throttle response. I find that slide carbs are far less temperamental than a stock carb once tuned in addition to being less susceptible to being plugged with dirt or other contaminants in the fuel.

RichieRichOverdrive wrote:

The advantage to them is how tuneable they are across the entire throttle range. You have a changeable low speed jet with a tuneable air screw, a changeable main jet, and then a tapered fuel needle which moves with the slide, that you can move up and down relative to the slide, to tune your midrange.Whole kits of jets are available, as well as differently tapered fuel needles. The slide opening from bottom to top also keeps all the air moving at high speed over where the fuel is pulled, giving better atomization than a butterfly type carb. They are also available with accelerator pumps for even better throttle response. I find that slide carbs are far less temperamental than a stock carb once tuned in addition to being less susceptible to being plugged with dirt or other contaminants in the fuel.

Sounds like a great idea.