1980 Roper 16T

MightyRaze wrote:

I was curious about those wheels too.  I see they were originally white.

They are kind of like the wheels I got to put my executioners on.  Just inverted.

Yes they were and they do look basically the same! Any idea what yours came off of?


Okay, so one more long winded post and the introduction to this tractor is done! More goodies came today and I took pictures of everything and I found out more history on it... the fella I bought it from got it from the original owner who had it serviced at the dealer every single year until he stopped using it which explains why it seems so well cared for.

I even got the ORIGINAL manual along with a couple of extras inside it, looks like an axle was replaced in 1994.


Here's the homemade snow blade, not horribly built and decent materials were used but that mast has to go, it looks like it was used to lift and lower it but I'll cut that off and come up with something better (eventually). That red "shoe" thing in the middle I believe is for transporting it without dragging the blade and was probably for backing into a garage or shed, it would only work by pulling it backwards as it's on a pivot and if you drove forward the blade would fall to the ground.  


I got a homemade weight box (for the rear) with it and I think those two links are for the snow blade.



The 34" snowblower is in decent shape, it came with extra parts, a new belt and only has surface rust! The auger blade has been repaired at some point but that won't affect it I'm sure. It is missing one upper link, I'll make one if it's not found or too much trouble to source another, it's the threaded pin that goes into the axle that will be the trick to find or make (last picture).



Last but not least is the 48" mower deck, it's solid and pretty heavy! No rot or holes just surface rust and a slightly bent discharge chute flap. It came with the mule drive and a spare lift mechanism but could use a new belt. I have to say that this deck may be a little too big for my yard but I'll still try it out next year to find out.


Something I forgot to mention previously is that this actual tractor came with an electric 3 point hitch which my friend Jace scored before I got it, it was incomplete but he finished it and put it on his 14hp Roper yard tractor. I'm really hoping he'll part with it so I can make this tractor whole again and put it to use! Heck this tractor has all the wiring and the switch for it too, it would literally be plug and play!

Well, that's the end of the introduction! I'm really happy with the tractor and the deal I've gotten on it. I look forward to enjoying it for years to come!

I got those wheels brand new on sale for like $39 each.  I see they are much more.  All they said was zero turn or garden tractor wheels.

At first I was thinking Massey, Ford, or even Sears FF series.  How does a sears GTV16 sound for the source of the wheels?

  How does the bearings in that mower deck feel?  Just a handy tip, don't overtighten the belt with the mule adjustment.  It will wear the center mandrel bearings out of the mower deck fast.

Yup @MightyRaze lots of the Sears GTV16's with the same looking wheels...you nailed it! Lol.

The bearings in the mower deck feel smooth and tight (no play), no grinding or funny business but really I'd have to take the central belt off to feel/spin each one individually but by grabbing each blade and turning them it feels very promising!

Thanks for the tip on the not over tightening the belt, I believe that's something you dealt with on Phoenix (formerly Grandpa) isn't it?

Yes it is. Or i believe that is the deal.  I am looking to maybe converting the spindles to something newer next year if I get motivated.  These old rigs are getting harder to repair as old parts are getting more sparce.

So guys this is my first Briggs Oppy (date code Oct '79) and I have to say that this thing makes alot of mechanical noise, is that fairly normal for these in your experiences? My old flathead singles are fairly noisy as well but this truly sounds tractor-ey so I'm hoping it's nothing to be concerned with because I like it, sounds like a proper tractor!

I think I'll put the stethoscope on it tomorrow regardless but would love to hear some opinions!

Don't know about the oppy but mechanical noises simply mean something is not right in my opinion.

They can be noisy, but nothing too much out of the ordinary.

Some of my video's showcasing the engine. Maybe it can help?



More exhaust, but towards the end maybe.


maybe


This one is probably a good one for engine noises. I have a pretty quiet muffler on Red.

Maybe toss up a video of the noise if you can?

Definitely helped @MightyRaze , it sounds the most like Lil Red how you can hear what sounds like valvetrain noise perhaps? Alot of a tapping like sound. I'll definitely do a little poking around and take a short video tomorrow but it runs strong and seems to have good compression.

fbisurveilancevan wrote:

Don't know about the oppy but mechanical noises simply mean something is not right in my opinion.

Not necessarily but maybe, some engines are just noisy like a rash of 90's GM engines that suffered from piston slap, not hurting anything but noticeable (which is what I'm hoping for).

Tomorrow is another day!

These Oppys in all the videos I've seen have a loud tapping/clicking noise to em, almost like a motor with a leaky exhaust manifold. I think it's probably cause they're such big flatheads, but IDK. Never had the ability to mess with one unfortunately. Someday....

I've done a little poking around and here's some results:

Cylinder # 2 has a dry compression reading of 100psi and a wet reading of 105psi.


Cylinder # 1 has a dry reading of 70psi and a wet reading of 73psi so I think it's safe to say that the piston rings and bores are fine but that's a large difference between cylinders!


Keep in mind the engine cold starts easily and runs strong so I'm hoping it just needs valve clearance adjustment on cylinder # 2 and that it's not a sunken valve seat or worn wrist pin. I've determined cylinder numbers based on the official B&S parts manual in case you were wondering.

I used my stethoscope and it's definitely a little noisier on the pto side nearest cylinder # 2 as compared to cylinder # 1 side and closer to the top of the cylinder as compared to nearer the crankshaft.


Here's a short video and it sounds fairly accurate as compared to in person although the clatter does sound more pronounced in the video.



I've ran it a fair bit and the noise didn't really bother me until I started overthinking it (but isn't that always the way!) and as I said it runs strong, I should check valve clearances soon but for now I may add a splash of Lucas Oil Stabilizer to see if it quiets down a touch or not.


Let me know what y'all think!

Best guess is that something is wrong with valve lash perhaps, you're experienced enough to know what a really bad noise sounds like and from what you say it sounds like one side is just loose.

If you have a leakdown tester that's always a good thing to check too.
Anyway adjusting valves wouldn't hurt a thing

fbisurveilancevan wrote:

Best guess is that something is wrong with valve lash perhaps, you're experienced enough to know what a really bad noise sounds like and from what you say it sounds like one side is just loose.

If you have a leakdown tester that's always a good thing to check too.
Anyway adjusting valves wouldn't hurt a thing

Could be loose or perhaps tight, Briggs flatheads tend to get tight on the exhaust valve over time or either intake or exhaust if a valve seat sinks. Checking the lash will tell me something even if I don't like what I find! Lol. Unfortunately checking the lash is much more involved than with a OHV and much more so to adjust it, I'm not sure it's even possible without removing the head and valve(s), maybe though if I can remove the valve keeper and push the valve up far enough to get a file in there? I do have the proper valve spring compressor for it...

A leakdown test is a excellent idea, that would give me a reason to finish and test the leakdown tester I (mostly) built a couple years ago and forgot about! Lol.

Thanks for the input!

I got a Sears suburban 16 that looks just like yours, same engine.
You would not believe how reliable my old rig is. My hood, dash and chassis looks just like yours.
I've got both a 1 7/8 and 2 inch ball hitch tow bar on the rear. I had to add a spring on the rear of the seat bracket to keep the seat from bottoming out on a bump.
Steering is great. Had a tie rod fall down once at high speed.
Mine has R+3 forward speeds and low speed selection also.
Mine had water in the transaxle when it was first given to me and had grape vines all over the machine.
Removed the top from the carb while still on the engine, cleaned internal on carb, jumped to the old battery, primed and she started.

Drained the gear box and added 80/90 and installed a plastic homemade umbrella on the shifter to stop water from getting in the gear box.

All this was 8 years ago and had to air up one tire since. Cannot believe how the old Briggs engine just keeps going like the energizer bunny. Weakest part on this rig is the front part of the hood that holds the headlights is fiberglass.

Just FYI,

Heard people running 80/90 and not heard any issues, but they call for 5qt of straight 30w nondetergent.

Good tips guys and thanks, I haven't checked the diff fluid yet but have been meaning to.

Quick Tip: make sure your unit doesn't have any bronze gears or parts that are NOT compatible with modern automotive diff fluid(s) bearing the GL5 certification as they are corrosive to them! My Bolens' call for GL4 certified only for that reason.

The biggest difference that I know of between your Suburban and my Roper @Okie743 are the nose cones, the Sears are fiberglass while my Roper has a aluminum one which in all honestly still has the same weak looking hood hinges. Fine for everyday use but if I was offroading it I'd prefer fiberglass so I could easily repair and reinforce it.

I am definitely looking forward to working this tractor as it was intended to be!

I just realized your compression reading.  All my oppys tend to be about 65 psi.  That's a low milage unit.  LOL

Well I'm sure glad I'm not relying on this beast for snowthrowing duty because it refuses to start in the cold! Lol. The other day, just around the freezing mark it was a bear to get started and it only ran on one cylinder for a couple of minutes until the other decided to catch but today... no chance and it was only about 23f out. I'm sure it has something to do with the difference in cylinder compressions but also maybe the fuel pump is struggling to get fuel up to the carb? I think I'll need to consider adding a one way fuel valve near the tank to see if that helps at all. It's nice it came with new spark plugs but I never liked running NGKs in equipment, especially in Briggs and Strattons so a switch to Champion plugs is most definitely in order!

Quick update!

I gave it a shot of fresh fuel in the tank, laced the spray to it while starting and I got it to catch after a couple of tries. It still wasn't terribly happy at first but it went and that's good enough to ease my mind a little (for now), I also ordered a pair of Champion J19LM plugs for it (a few bucks cheaper than the RJs) and will pop them in as soon as they arrive which should be tomorrow!

Look up
Autolite Iridium Lawn & Garden Spark Plug
I have been Super happy with them in my briggs opposed.

Quick question.  Does your model have the aluminum or fibre nose cone?  I thought I saw you say aluminum?  I assumed that ony the ones with the lights on bottom were the aluminum ones.

Champion J19LM crosses into Autolite 458. I will order them on my next paycheck and give them a go, can't ever hurt to have spares anyhow and we had good luck with Autolites in my friends race car, thanks for the tip!

Well would you look at that... I just went outside and scratched the nose cone and it IS fiber! Sounded solid like aluminum when I tapped it before! Geeze I'm embarrassed! Lol. The lower half of the grille is definitely aluminum though, is that normal?

Brianator wrote:

Champion J19LM crosses into Autolite 458. I will order them on my next paycheck and give them a go, can't ever hurt to have spares anyhow and we had good luck with Autolites in my friends race car, thanks for the tip!

Well would you look at that... I just went outside and scratched the nose cone and it IS fiber! Sounded solid like aluminum when I tapped it before! Geeze I'm embarrassed! Lol. The lower half of the grille is definitely aluminum though, is that normal?

I love the irridum plugs.  Yep, that is totally normal with the nose cone on these.

This is the only one that I know of that is cast aluminum. Note the lights are in the middle not the top like ours.

Man that thing looks a fugly with the headlights down low don't you think!? Lol.


Another quick update:

The Champion J19LMs arrived today while I was at work and have been sitting outside so they're just as cold as everything else (just below freezing like the other day), I gapped them to 0.35", popped them in and wouldn't you know it the tractor fired up and was more manageable to keep running for it to warm up a bit and fully catch. Not perfect but much better so I think once I solve the difference in cylinder pressures it shouldn't be a problem anymore.

The plugs that came with it were NGK BR6S which, aren't even in the proper heat range for this engine (too cold) or a listed cross reference for it either... regardless of that I've never had good luck with NGKs in B&S engines and they were going to be ousted at some point even if they did work half decently.

Question for you all... does anyone have any experience with these pen style spark testers?


I forgot about it and just tried it tonight for the first time (only on the Roper) and find that the light is quite dim, there'd be no chance of seeing it in the daylight so was hoping someone here has a little feedback on that?

@Brianator that grill style grows on you over time.

Not familiar with that pen style spark tester.

It possible the valves on the one side be carbon build up?  If so, the better plug may self clean it giving it the onions some.  May also need to check valve clearance. (that sux on these engines as you have to pop the head off).  Like I mentioned 70 is still great for these, but a 30psi difference is quite a bit.

I dunno, 70psi seems pretty weak to me for any engine and yes 30psi difference is HUGE! 5-10% difference is not a real concern but 30%... not liking it! Lol.

I should be able to check the valve clearances by popping the breather covers off which are on top under the air cleaner no? I figured it would have a similar setup to a single slug L head in that way, there has to be a way to actually measure it when it's fully assembled.

It's very possible the valve(s)/head(s)/piston(s) are carboned up and causing that ruckus in which case a Seafoam treatment or 2 should help but I really need to check the valve clearances first.

What I really need to do is forget about it until after the Build Off but it's bugging me! Lol.


*EDIT* When I've been speaking of valve clearance I've been meaning about the valve STEM clearance which I know can grow loose or tight over time, I believe @MightyRaze is speaking of valve-head-clearence in which case yes I suppose I would have to remove the head unless I could get creative with perhaps some solder?

No I was talking about under the breathers.  To resolve any clearance with some grinding stems or new valves.  That's what I was talking about taking the head off.  I know you know all that.