tractor build competition?

Or chassis. I dont really care.
I wanna see creativity and some clean builds also some newthinking if I were to be judging this.
So why have a ton of rules that limit any build?

So if a guy did nail a Craftsman hood to a jetski, so what? would he ever win?!  

What doc said! Plus. We need someone in charge. If anyone cared to look at the link in one of my initial posts on this thread. You would of seen that SuicideNeil runs the contest, then he picks the top ten and makes a poll. say there are 11 entries.
He would make decisions and make a poll of his selected 5.

Well- the way we run it on DIYGK is pretty simple. As of the contest closing date, we go over the builds that are claimed to be "finished", to qualify them for judging. What ever builds meet the criteria for "finished" as according to the rules (see the ruleset I posted a page or two back), are deemed finished, and a time period is given for the public to evaluate the builds and ask questions of the builders.

Actual voting, is done by simple poll. One vote, one answer- which do you think is the best build? Highest vote count is declared the winner.

Originally, we had thought about setting up voting criteria, assigning points, and all that fancy stuff. Truth be told, when, 6 months later you have MAYBE 6 finished builds- it's just not worth the effort to try to set up something elaborate.

Not to pee out a campfire, but my experience thus far indicates that the "finished" numbers won't be all that impressive. Both times we've had the contest on DIYGK, we did a poll forst- see how many people honestly intended to enter, based on dates, etc. Of those who responded "yes", somewhere between 1/2 to 1/3 actually entered. Less than a third of those that actually entered, actually finished.

Both times, I think there were 5 or 6 finishers, IIRC.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see this happen. I'm just saying that it need not be too elaborate, nor will there likely be a need for picking the top 5 or 10 for final judging.

Why do so many people not enter or not finish? Life, simply. Sometimes the budget isn't there. Sometimes parts aren't appearing, or something happens in your life that just eats your free time for too long.

Either way, let's subscribe to the K.I.S.S. principle. Draw up a set of rules that keep the builds within scope and safe, an allotted time frame, and let 'er rip!

As for who runs it? I should think it should be a moderator here, one that can guarantee to devote the time required to start it, run it, monitor it, qualify the builds, run the voting, etc. All in. And it CAN be time consuming. Been there.

ill enter if if i can enter my Ford

ok everyone knows blackwidow i was wondering if i could enter blackwindow since it is pretty much stock has no rearend in it anymore no pullys just has a ungov v-twin that needs a new right head (bent a valve killed a valve seat) has choppsed seat pan to sit lower has the gas pedal mod still gotta fix the steering box (needs bushings and new steering gear snapped 3 teeth) needs gas tank and battery tray (using electric tape to hold it in place) needs kill switch wired up needs the new axle installed and i need to have my tires remounted and transfered over to the new rims gotta go find all the hardware and gotta order new pullys and the engine needs new pto seal and the crack by the gov arm patched so could i enter blackwidow because it really is stock/trashed/junkyard style?

i think you should only be able to enter a moderately stock mower. I was planning on everyone to be doing frame ups so guess we you start it should be a build from either stock or chassis up.

So far the rules we have are

-safety wise
-base off a stock chassis
-engine from a mower

Other than that is everyone happy with those faintly described rules? If everyone is we can determine the ones in charge and have them fine tune a little.

Sounds about right.

I think all engines should be aloud. What if I wanna run my gx200?

So far so good. I think once the rules are set (whatever rules there will be) it will become clearer for many including myself if I could participate, which I would very much like to do. I've read through all the comments and there seems still to be many unknowns. As an example, would my Troy Bilt qualify as a starter: currently completely stock except for wheels and tires. I have a project planned for it when the weather warms and it will be a frame up re-do and will be a dramatic change from it's current condition, as a build thread would show, so naturally I would like to use it if the rules allow what I have planned.... which I believe they likely will. If not then I have a Craftsman that's all stock and even has the deck still on it which I might can use. But then that would be 2 projects which might be 1 to many. You guys hammer out the rules and the rest of us can live with them or not.

TroyBilt Pony wrote:

I think all engines should be aloud. What if I wanna run my gx200?

Its a mower competition. Using a mower engine wittles it down so people arnt putting a 302 in a mower or a cb1000.

-Reds three basic rules sound good to me.
- And Docs got a good point, a, or a few, site moderators should run the thing. I'd hate to see the compation fail when several people where half way thru a build.
-as far as motors go, I'd say stay tractor. And on that note, whats the real diffrence between an old horizontal tractor motor and a honda gx? Just some food for thought, My landlords yerf dog kart has a 10hp horizontal of a tractor he stripped that originally was on a generator.

redlinemotorsportts wrote:

TroyBilt Pony wrote:

I think all engines should be aloud. What if I wanna run my gx200?

Its a mower competition. Using a mower engine wittles it down so people arnt putting a 302 in a mower or a cb1000.

or a gs 500?

I think that it should be any small engine, say less then 30hp no matter what its from. Other then that im good with the rules. I would definitely be up for entering it.

tractor_guy wrote:

-Reds three basic rules sound good to me.
- And Docs got a good point, a, or a few, site moderators should run the thing. I'd hate to see the compation fail when several people where half way thru a build.
-as far as motors go, I'd say stay tractor. And on that note, whats the real diffrence between an old horizontal tractor motor and a honda gx? Just some food for thought,  My landlords yerf dog kart has a 10hp horizontal of a tractor he stripped that originally was on a generator.

If it was my call, I'd define it as such "Any single or twin-cylinder, air-cooled, vertical or horizontal shaft engine, designed for OPE use". Now, since there ARE a few liquid-cooled OPE engines out there, we could add, "or liquid-cooled, as long as it was designed and built for OPE use".

Jedi wrote:

So far so good. I think once the rules are set (whatever rules there will be) it will become clearer for many including myself if I could participate, which I would very much like to do. I've read through all the comments and there seems still to be many unknowns. As an example, would my Troy Bilt qualify as a starter: currently completely stock except for wheels and tires. I have a project planned for it when the weather warms and it will be a frame up re-do and will be a dramatic change from it's current condition, as a build thread would show, so naturally I would like to use it if the rules allow what I have planned.... which I believe they likely will. If not then I have a Craftsman that's all stock and even has the deck still on it which I might can use. But then that would be 2 projects which might be 1 to many. You guys hammer out the rules and the rest of us can live with them or not.

So far, we've gotten several questions like, "can I enter my xxxxx?" On DIYGK, we have a rule- any entry must be no more than 50% finished prior to the competition start date. Stuff that's already started, or is intended to be torn down and re-done differently, qualifies under this rule. 50% is of course subjective, and needs to be a judgement call by whoever is running the contest. For our purposes here, it doesn't have to be 50%, but remember that it IS subjective.

Personally, I see it this way: we don't want somebody just swapping tires and painting an otherwise finished project, it wouldn't be fair to the guys actually building stuff. So, if somebody tries to cheat one in, it's upon whoever is running it to make a judgement call and disqualify any entry deemed to be "cheating".

It is for this same purpose that we want a starting picture showing what the entrant is working with in the first place, progress pics, and completed pics.

One other thought for those reading this thread: the purpose here is to hammer everything out before officially announcing or starting the contest. Don't quite light that torch just yet.

Doc Sprocket wrote:

Jedi wrote:

So far so good. I think once the rules are set (whatever rules there will be) it will become clearer for many including myself if I could participate, which I would very much like to do. I've read through all the comments and there seems still to be many unknowns. As an example, would my Troy Bilt qualify as a starter: currently completely stock except for wheels and tires. I have a project planned for it when the weather warms and it will be a frame up re-do and will be a dramatic change from it's current condition, as a build thread would show, so naturally I would like to use it if the rules allow what I have planned.... which I believe they likely will. If not then I have a Craftsman that's all stock and even has the deck still on it which I might can use. But then that would be 2 projects which might be 1 to many. You guys hammer out the rules and the rest of us can live with them or not.

So far, we've gotten several questions like, "can I enter my xxxxx?" On DIYGK, we have a rule- any entry must be no more than 50% finished prior to the competition start date. Stuff that's already started, or is intended to be torn down and re-done differently, qualifies under this rule. 50% is of course subjective, and needs to be a judgement call by whoever is running the contest. For our purposes here, it doesn't have to be 50%, but remember that it IS subjective.

Personally, I see it this way: we don't want somebody just swapping tires and painting an otherwise finished project, it wouldn't be fair to the guys actually building stuff. So, if somebody tries to cheat one in, it's upon whoever is running it to make a judgement call and disqualify any entry deemed to be "cheating".

It is for this same purpose that we want a starting picture showing what the entrant is working with in the first place, progress pics, and completed pics.

One other thought for those reading this thread: the purpose here is to hammer everything out before officially announcing or starting the contest. Don't quite light that torch just yet.

---I like the more specific engine regulations. I think this way we will see more unique and creative builds rather then 10 Murray's with 12hp briggs and atv tires. :-)
---I've tried several times to post pics on here to no avail. I dont know why it dont work. Ive tried linkin to FB pics and DIYKarts. I'd hate to miss out on the buildoff on account of this setback (if I do enter), but I cant argue that without posting pics here for an entry should disqualify.
---As far as the pictures thing goes, are you thinkin only require start and finish pics or a complete build thread? I was thinkin a full on thread would be best for judging purposes but may also create problems of builders copying eachothers ideas. Then we are back to 10 Murray's with 12hp briggs and atv tires. To onlookers threads would make the buildoff more interesting and maybe even result in new atltf members. Just another subject for thought.

Full build threads would be a requirement. Much better for judging and helps keep folks in the loop.

Is anybody really worried about copying? If you have build threads you can clearly see who is doing what, who did it first, who did it better.

Let the builds speak for themselves!!!

Thunderdivine wrote:

Also I would like to see pics on request.
And I would say any engine too, what are you guys afraid of? I would love to see a v4 in a mower.

It doesn't seem tractor ish at that point. Trying to keep them actually looking like a tractor for a tractor buildoff lol.

In my own humble opinion, the reasons for specifying a tractor frame and an OPE engine, are to level the playing field somewhat. Thunder, you're a hell of a good example of this-

Here we are, a bunch of guys that like to build up tractors to go well beyond factory capabilities. Most of the membership is young, of limited experience, and even more limited budgets. You, on the other hand, have machining and fabrication experience, access to some awesome fabrication tools, a good budget, and some fantastic fab skills. As it is, many members would be hard pressed to compete against you as it is. Then, unexpectedly, you enter the build off with a GSXR1100-powered, fully independent-suspension, microprocessor-controlled lunar rover, with so much billet aluminum in it that Chip Foose himself offers to make your rims- and it just so happens to have a Wheel Horse grille... Boom- game over for the other guys, even before they begin...

As a sports fan, excitement is watching your team go end-to-end whilst desperately trying to hold on to that 1-point lead, while the visiting team turns up the gas trying to gain that precious point. A 10-0 blowout halfway through the first period makes for a real snore of a game for the remaining 50 minutes of play.

By constraining the builds, no- we cannot account for budget, fancy tools, or insane skills. But, at least there's a better chance that in a real-time romp-off (or whatever), the machines would at least be in the same class.

Others may disagree, those are my thoughts on the matter.

Doc Sprocket wrote:

In my own humble opinion, the reasons for specifying a tractor frame and an OPE engine, are to level the playing field somewhat. Thunder, you're a hell of a good example of this-

Here we are, a bunch of guys that like to build up tractors to go well beyond factory capabilities. Most of the membership is young, of limited experience, and even more limited budgets. You, on the other hand, have machining and fabrication experience, access to some awesome fabrication tools, a good budget, and some fantastic fab skills. As it is, many members would be hard pressed to compete against you as it is. Then, unexpectedly, you enter the build off with a GSXR1100-powered, fully independent-suspension,  microprocessor-controlled lunar rover, with so much billet aluminum in it that Chip Foose himself offers to make your rims- and it just so happens to have a Wheel Horse grille... Boom- game over for the other guys, even before they begin...

As a sports fan, excitement is watching your team go end-to-end whilst desperately trying to hold on to that 1-point lead, while the visiting team turns up the gas trying to gain that precious point. A 10-0 blowout halfway through the first period makes for a real snore of a game for the remaining 50 minutes of play.

By constraining the builds, no- we cannot account for budget, fancy tools, or insane skills. But, at least there's a better chance that in a real-time romp-off (or whatever), the machines would at least be in the same class.

Others may disagree, those are my thoughts on the matter.

I see the point, but I was talking about "any engine", not the above, and what are the chances for this? Nill, nada zero zillch. Instead you lock out that guy with a non mower motor. ie homelite, Zenoah, Honda and other 2-strokes and 4-strokes.

Level the playing field, this only works if we all meet up and see whos preforms the best.

I'd still vote for any motor and any frame.

Thunderdivine wrote:

Instead you lock out that guy with a non mower motor. ie homelite, Zenoah, Honda and other 2-strokes and 4-strokes.

I guess that depends what interpretation you go with. I suggested we allow all horizontal and vertical shaft OPE engines. OPE is a pretty broad spectrum- Outdoor Power Equipment, for those who didn't understand... So if you have a big Honda from a logsplitter, or a little Homelite weedeater, or whatever... it's still cool.

Doc Sprocket wrote:

Thunderdivine wrote:

Instead you lock out that guy with a non mower motor. ie homelite, Zenoah, Honda and other 2-strokes and 4-strokes.

I guess that depends what interpretation you go with. I suggested we allow all horizontal and vertical shaft OPE engines. OPE is a pretty broad spectrum- Outdoor Power Equipment, for those who didn't understand... So if you have a big Honda from a logsplitter, or a little Homelite weedeater, or whatever... it's still cool.

Oh, I didn't understand OPE lol

Utility 4 wheeler falls under OPE? Lol

[/quote] I suggested we allow all horizontal and vertical shaft OPE engines. OPE is a pretty broad spectrum- Outdoor Power Equipment, for those who didn't understand... So if you have a big Honda from a logsplitter, or a little Homelite weedeater, or whatever... it's still cool.[/quote]
I'd like to suggest this be tagged as a rule and pinned to the short list.....