Craftsmen LT4000--What am I working with and what am I capable of doing with it?

New member here. I am working with little knowledge and on the project with my ten-year-old son, who is leading this endeavor, so please bear with me.

Today, we just picked up what appears to be a 1992 Craftsmen LT4000 6-speed with a 14 hp Kohler Command14. We paid $150.00 for it. It runs excellently, it is clean, and it seems to be in fantastic shape. Aside from that, I do not know what we have (whether it is a good candidate for a build or has good counterparts). My son concluded that the Craftsmen LT series tractors were appropriate for this building type.

Model:
Craftsmen LT4000, #917.255693

Kohler Command14 CV14s, Spec No. 1445


Based on my son's research, he wants to do a pulley swap for speed and later put larger tires on it. Looking at the machine, I am unsure what it can be transitioned into. I noticed that the front pulley is maybe 3-4 inches, and the belt clutch is right next to the front pulley, making me wonder if we can even add a larger pulley to the front.

I am also curious if anyone can identify the transaxle. It is a six-speed.

Any feedback and advice is appreciated! I want to ensure we are not throwing good money after bad, and since this is my son's project, every penny matters to him.

Thanks!

Rear end and controls.

Picture from the back.  Opposite your last picture should be a sticker on the transaxle.  It will either be a Spicer or MST.  Both are just fine for getting into modding!

BTW, Welcome to ATLTF for you and your son!  Sounds like he HAS done some research!  Got a geared trans!  

Very clean tractor for it's age.  If you are keeping the clutch unmodified, yeah front pulley will be an issue but ok.  It can still be pulley swapped in the rear to get up to 15+ mph.  I wouldn't go much faster than that unless some more mods are done.  4 or 5 inch pulley on the rear will make for a fun ride. Remember the smaller pulley in the rear it will begin to slip more.  5 inch is a typical good size 4" is faster.  Are you planning on playing on hills?  or mostly light trail rides?  Around the yard.  If Hills are not an issue, locking the rear isn't that necessary.  If you do plan on going on hills and off-road parks it is recommended and safer for a locked transaxle.  We can get into more details as the topic grows!

Welcome

Welcome!

The most common 6 speed used in the AYP built Craftsmans from the 80' into the 90's was a Dana/Foote/Spicer 4360 (all the same company), I'd bet that's what you have. Based on what I see of the rear pulley it's definitely a Dana/Foote as it looks the same as the one my Roper Trailblazer had before I swapped it, it's also made by AYP just a little older. They're very similar tractors, easy to work on, easy to get parts for and tougher than anticipated! I've taken it through some rough terrain and it's always done really well, the link I just posted above will take you strait to the build thread for it which is full of relevant info for you fellas!

My original rear pulley was 10" I believe and I had the same issue with the clutch being close to the front pulley so I swapped the rear pulley for a 6.5" (I think) to gain a little speed, you could go down to 5" or 4.5" and keep good belt "gripton" (too small and the belt will slip killing you speed). That should get you close to 13mph which on a tractor is faster than it sounds! The easist way will be to install a new pulley on the rear only and size up a new belt. If you can weld, the "weld on" hubs and pulleys are a good choice in my books.

Looks like @MightyRaze beat me to the finish line as I was typing and got distracted for a few minutes! Lol

MightyRaze wrote:

Picture from the back.  Opposite your last picture should be a sticker on the transaxle.  It will either be a Spicer or MST.  Both are just fine for getting into modding!

BTW, Welcome to ATLTF for you and your son!  Sounds like he HAS done some research!  Got a geared trans!  

Very clean tractor for it's age.  If you are keeping the clutch unmodified, yeah front pulley will be an issue but ok.  It can still be pulley swapped in the rear to get up to 15+ mph.  I wouldn't go much faster than that unless some more mods are done.  4 or 5 inch pulley on the rear will make for a fun ride. Remember the smaller pulley in the rear it will begin to slip more.  5 inch is a typical good size 4" is faster.  Are you planning on playing on hills?  or mostly light trail rides?  Around the yard.  If Hills are not an issue, locking the rear isn't that necessary.  If you do plan on going on hills and off-road parks it is recommended and safer for a locked transaxle.  We can get into more details as the topic grows!

Welcome

No hills really... yet. Mostly our sometimes/seasonally wet swamp trails, the yard, and cruising the rural neighborhood. Without getting too deep into the mechanics of it all, what could be typically done beyond changing the rear pulley to four or five inches? You mentioned the clutch mod and locking the rear end. Are those terribly involved?

If we were to jump tire sizes, can only a four or five-inch pulley swap suffice for doing so, or should we be looking at doing other things in addition? I am sure the sizing of the wheels would be reasonable.

I am open to all sorts of suggestions. Thanks for the help!!

Brianator wrote:

Welcome!

The most common 6 speed used in the AYP built Craftsmans from the 80' into the 90's was a Dana/Foote/Spicer 4360 (all the same company), I'd bet that's what you have. Based on what I see of the rear pulley it's definitely a Dana/Foote as it looks the same as the one my Roper Trailblazer had before I swapped it, it's also made by AYP just a little older. They're very similar tractors, easy to work on, easy to get parts for and tougher than anticipated! I've taken it through some rough terrain and it's always done really well, the link I just posted above will take you strait to the build thread for it which is full of relevant info for you fellas!

My original rear pulley was 10" I believe and I had the same issue with the clutch being close to the front pulley so I swapped the rear pulley for a 6.5" (I think) to gain a little speed, you could go down to 5" or 4.5" and keep good belt "gripton" (too small and the belt will slip killing you speed). That should get you close to 13mph which on a tractor is faster than it sounds! The easist way will be to install a new pulley on the rear only and size up a new belt. If you can weld, the "weld on" hubs and pulleys are a good choice in my books.

Looks like @MightyRaze beat me to the finish line as I was typing and got distracted for a few minutes! Lol

After posting earlier, I found a spec sheet online that said it should be a Dana axle, so I am now confident it is.

I can't wait to review your build! Sounds like it will be useful for us! What type of pulleys should I be looking for (non-weld)? I am assuming drive pulleys, but anything beyond that?

Thanks for the help!

MightyRaze wrote:

Picture from the back.  Opposite your last picture should be a sticker on the transaxle.  It will either be a Spicer or MST.  Both are just fine for getting into modding!

BTW, Welcome to ATLTF for you and your son!  Sounds like he HAS done some research!  Got a geared trans!  

Very clean tractor for it's age.  If you are keeping the clutch unmodified, yeah front pulley will be an issue but ok.  It can still be pulley swapped in the rear to get up to 15+ mph.  I wouldn't go much faster than that unless some more mods are done.  4 or 5 inch pulley on the rear will make for a fun ride. Remember the smaller pulley in the rear it will begin to slip more.  5 inch is a typical good size 4" is faster.  Are you planning on playing on hills?  or mostly light trail rides?  Around the yard.  If Hills are not an issue, locking the rear isn't that necessary.  If you do plan on going on hills and off-road parks it is recommended and safer for a locked transaxle.  We can get into more details as the topic grows!

Welcome

Funny thing is, we got a Bolens ST 160 last week for free... Non-running, but got it running in a few hours. Unfortunately, it was hydro and we did not realize until later it would not work for these types of builds. Good experience though! Now we have an extra mower sitting around.

Just a standard vbelt pulley for a 1/2" (or A) belt, made of steel or cast iron, definitely do not use an aluminum pulley!

Chances are the input shaft on the trans is a 5/8" keyed strait shaft (non tapered or splined) but you'll need to remove the pulley first to be sure.

For what you are doing, rear pulley swap and some cool tires will suffice.  A taller tire in the rear will help give ya a 1mph or two increase in speed.  

Start there and have some fun!

For some little safety, I would look into a tether kill.  You can wire it up in line of the coil kill wire.  Basically grounds it when pulled kind of deal.  That way you won't have a run away tractor should someone fall off!

As far as locker, when you want to get a little more advanced, I highly recommend Sprockets Garage on youtube.   @Doc Sprocket has some good video's on locking transaxles.  That Dana should be similar enough to the MST on his youtube page.  He has a weldless locker 2.0 on there.  I did it with one of my machines that has has moderate riding for the past 7 years successfully!



Like mentioned.  Get your feet wet and go from there!  Can be addicting!

Man, I can't get over how good that 21 y/o tractor looks. Good buy.

@MightyRaze Thanks for the added information! Do you have any recommendations on where to look for tires? Should we be swapping out the wheels, or are there tires out there for the size of stock wheels that will give us a couple of inches of height?

I want to keep it simple, but you are right... They appear addictive!

No taller than 22 inches for the rear.  A few avenues to go, you can use your existing wheel.  I had some 22x10-8's on one of mine at one time.  I get them anywhere they are cheap.  ebay, amazon, sometimes bmikart.  Shipping should be a lot better for you from bmikart than me.  There are deals out there.  Just got to look and a little patience.

As for the front.  I'm pretty sure those are 3/4inch spindles.  You might look on ebay or around on FB marketplace for some GT front wheels.  They are 8 inch wheels over the I bet 6's that are on there now.  Biggest thing for a square nose LT is the tires getting into the sides of the hood.  Not sure the best route there for you.  A nice tire back in the day was the Kenda x-trac 16x6.5-8 if you find GT wheels.  Not sure what height you can get with a 6 inch.  16 inch tall is good with a 20-22 inch rear.

Other options, you might could get a set of 3/4 hubs (ayp Hub 532199844) for the rear and upgrade to a 10 inch 5 lug wheel (Riding Lawn Mowers Garden tractor 10x8.5 5/4.5) but that starts getting a little more $$.  Still keep it 23 inches or less for rear tire height.  Not sure that transaxle could take a taller tire without busting.

Example of 22's with kenda x-tracs 16x6.5-8


Example of the 5lug hubs 10" wheels with 22's, this one has 17" fronts.

PS: Another factor to think about if going larger on the rear wheel/tire.  The stock brakes are less effective and wear out much faster.

Here is the yellow tractor above with 18 inch tall rear tires on stock wheels.  They can be pretty cool too.


Not sure if you have changed tires yourself, but if you do this harbor freight tire station works well for breaking beads.
https://www.harborfreight.com/manual-tire-changer-58731.html
Too bad they changed the color and raised the price $10 since I got mine a few years ago.


If you really want to get advanced or just want more ideas, check out this build thread!
https://www.atltf.com/t1074-craftsman-10-38-11-38-12-38-builds

@MightyRaze Wow! Those look great! I feel like along those lines are what my son is aiming for.

I really appreciate your insight and help! Time is something I only have a little, and this is helping me get right to what I need!

@Brianator there has Been a lag since I last posted, and we will order the pulley tomorrow. My looming question is, how do we best measure for the new belt?

It can be tough, I've never found a silver bullet that's got me to the right belt length on the first go so I use a couple of methods to get some numbers to work with then buy a few belts and return the ones that won't work. I've found that if you keep the belts clean and do not start the engine causing wear that stores have always been willing to do the returns.

First I use a little math, I take a measurent from the center of the trans input shaft to the center of the engine shaft, multiply that by 2 then add half of the circumstance of each of the original pulleys and compare that number to the length of the outer diameter of the original belt. Belts sit inside the pulley a little so some playing with the numbers will be required to get them to match up close.

Then I rerun the calculations with the new pulley (half) circumstances subracting a little to come up with a number that makes sense to me, then I use a 1/2" rope to simulate a belt and see if I can match up close to that number. With that number I'll get a belt in that length, another 1" shorter and a third 1" longer and hope one of them works.

Another way will require 2 cut belts and 4 zipties. You ziptie the 2 belts together with 2 zipties then feed it through everything making sure you have about the same tension on the clutch pulley spring as stock and ziptie the 2 haves of that together. This will also get you very close but you still might end up needing it to be a little longer or shorter, it's important that when the clutch pedal is fully depressed that the belt comes out of the pulley enough to disengage. Then you need to make new belt guides for the new pulleys or the belt will come off and or not fully disengage from the pulley.

Sorry for the rant, couldn't expain it in a shorter manner! Lol

@Brianator

We finally got to the belt on Monday. We did the calculations and the rope method and bought several belts... The rope method was within an inch. All I can say is WOW! That little mower has some acceleration! I am surprised I did not lift the front end off the ground. It seems like the belt is holding tight with the clutch out and loose enough that it just sits there with the clutch in. We quickly concluded that we needed a tether kill switch and a foot or handle throttle controller to make it a more manageable beast to drive. Do you have any considerations for a usable throttle when driving instead of the standard dash mount throttle?

Thanks for the help! This has been just a blast!

That's awesome glad to hear it! For a quick and easy foot throttle alot of guys use a bicycle brake lever and cable to hook it up to the carb linkage, I tried and really liked using a small piece of AllRound although when I redo it I'll be making a small "tail" to bolt the other side together and prevent it from wanting to spead open. There are other methods, I liked how quick, easy and well this way worked, it's hooked up directly to the carb butterfly lever.

As for a tether switch I find these work really well and are cheap to order from Amazon, not only does pulling the tether kill the engine but the red knob on the end is also a button (have to hold for a few seconds)

Glad to hear you're making progress and having fun, we'd love to see some pictures!