our 1st wheelhorse mud mower

Crazy_Carl wrote:

Sweet.  There's a lot of bugget performance mods you can do to a predator 420.  Is it electric start?  Sounds like you have it made with the new house and wheel horse project.

sorry it took me so long to get back here, no the engine doesn't have electric start, pull rope only,
after weeks of soaking the brake pedal shaft in penetrating oil we finally got it freed up, and now that it's free and the clutch is freed up, which was much easier than the brake, we mounted the engine, had to move the plate rearward about 5 inches and remove the battery box, we also had to drill 2 new holes in the plate because the originals didn't line up with the engine mount holes, and we found out this could be an older Honda engine not a predator, but a predator 420 is the only one I could find that has a single center bolt in the valve cover and is the 13 HP we were told this is, doesn't really matter to me what it actually is since it runs perfectly, been sitting since before we moved and it started on the 3rd pull today, we only have minor things to do now to get this running under it's own power, namely a belt, a proper fuel line, the temporary line we hooked up is actually a hose off of my aunts old oxygen machine, it works but not something we want to run very long, and lastly a kill switch, we are just grounding the wire to the engine block to kill it atm, he has the original kohler up for sale, said he'd rather sell it to someone who could fix it that knew what they were doing, atm my brother plans to run the tractor as is body wise, he's going to lube up the chassis and replace the seat but otherwise leave it alone for now, he does want to put on a gm single wire alternator and mount some lights, but I don't personally see the point since we never go riding at night

You're close to a test drive!  Sounds like to have to find a shorter belt to use.

@Crazy_Carl we actually got the belt yesterday and got everything hooked up, we took it for a ride and with the 6 1/2 in engine pulley it's still slow, but the main problem isn't the speed, it's fast enough for the trails we ride, it's the engine pulley, it's cast iron and even with the clutch pushed in it still grabs and won't disengage, so it is very hard to get into gear, it has a nasty grind when trying to put it in gear from a stop, though if you get it rolling even just a little we can slip it into gear and shift through without issue, we don't want to damage the gears in the transaxle so we will be getting a steel pulley, I think a steel pulley will allow the belt to slip as it should with the clutch pushed in and make it so we can start and stop right

Do you have belt guides on your engine pulley?  If not the belt may not disengage properly.

MightyRaze wrote:

Do you have belt guides on your engine pulley?  If not the belt may not disengage properly.

no belt guides, but it didn't have any on the original engine either, the only belt guide it does have is on the clutch pulley, this is a side/horizontal shaft motor, and i've never seen one that had belt guides, it does have a belt cover that we are going to mod to fit the new setup, but I don't think it will make a difference in weather the belt slips with the clutch pressed

Yeah I had this same exact problem.  Get an inch longer belt and install a couple of belt guides around the engine pulley.  CreepyCrawler has an adjustable tensioner pulley located about under where your right foot is.  Solves the belt length dilema and can keep the belt from rubbing on the brake rod.

the belt will virtually come off the pulley completely when the engine isn't running, but when it is the pulley just grabs it and it keeps trying to pull, that's why I think a steel pulley will solve the problem, we had this same issue with my murray, we put a cast iron pulley on the engine and nothing could keep it from grabbing the belt, we tried longer belts, guides and several other things, but the only thing that worked was replacing the cast pulley with a steel one and after that i never had another issue, so I think it would be the same with this, but i'll let my brother know what you said and let him decide what he wants to try 1st, either way we have a 50/50 chance of one or the other working to solve the issue, if neither solves it we may have to put a pulley brake on the transaxle pulley, i think i can make one from a deck brake, but that would be a last resort

definitely get rid of the cast iron and get a steel one

here's some pics of the wheelhorse my brother took today, if anyone can tell us exactly what the engine is I would appreciate it, we were told it was a 13hp, but we don't know what brand, I assume a predator 420 since it's the only engine I can find with the single center bolt in the valve cover.

we switched out the 6in engine pulley with a 5in, it is still a cast iron pulley, in fact it's the very one I had trouble with on my murray, but it's working a lot better, it's still grabbing the belt, but if you hold the clutch the belt will slow down enough to put it in gear, it just takes a few seconds to do it, we still plan to put a steel pulley on it, maybe a 51/2in, but wanted to see how just going with a longer belt and guides would work,

Any numbers embossed into the engine black on the side facing the dash?

there was a tag at some time but it's gone, I haven't seen any numbers stamped in the block itself, but then I wasn't looking for them either, if it helps it is a 1'' shaft on the output, i'll take a look and see if I can find any numbers on the block anywhere

Since you know that the cast iron pulleys are grabby, maybe find one for the transaxle input.

prancstaman wrote:

Since you know that the cast iron pulleys are grabby, maybe find one for the transaxle input.

we're running the stock transaxle pulley and it is cast iron.

we haven't been running this much, mostly due to the fact it has no air filter, my brother is very particular about the care he gives his engines, he changes the oil in them more often than i do my truck, and he hates to run them without an air filter, but we did take it out today to stretch it's legs, we need a new brake band , the one on it doesn't even try to stop it and we still need to get the pulley sorted, but finances are tight right now so it'll have to wait, it's not fast but we didn't want it to be, this is strictly a trail mower so the 8-10mph we get out of it is plenty fast enough

Nice looking Wheelhorse! I don't think that is a Predator, looks more like a regular Honda clone to me. You can buy those air filter assemblies on ebay or get an adaptor for a K&N filter.

MatthewD wrote:

Nice looking Wheelhorse! I don't think that is a Predator, looks more like a regular Honda clone to me. You can buy those air filter assemblies on ebay or get an adaptor for a K&N filter.

i'm not sure what it is, the previous owner said it was a 13hp engine, he had it mounted on a large log splitter or wood chipper something like that, and as I said before, it does have a 1" shaft and the single center bolt valve cover, the only engine I can find that had these 3 things together was a 420 predator, we have the stock air box for this engine, but my brother didn't want to cut the hood so it would fit, he's planning on getting a filter adaptor and running a small cone style filter

my 13hp lifan fits the same description.  :-)  No telling the clone version.  Ironton had that style recoil yours has. (but so did some others.  LOL)

well this bites, the float went bad and filled full of gas, it looks to me like it spit right at a mold seam, but can't be sure, it has no really visible cracks that I can find, will superglue standup to gas? if we can seal up this float rather than buying a new carb it would be great, and my brother said he found some numbers on the engine, i'll have him write them down and see if they give any indication as to what it is, I did remember one other thing, but I don't think it's helpful, it did have a red gas tank on it, problem is I don't know if that's the stock tank it had on the engine or the one off the engine that was replaced with this one by the original owner,

I think to get rid a generic replacement carburetor all you would really need to know is the displacement of the motor.

this might be a little dangerous with that gas in the float but if you can get it emptied out including the vapors, maybe you could heat up a nail with a lighter or torch and melt the plastic seem back together. it’s a free fixso what do you have to lose (maybe your face if you ignite the gas vapors in the bowl and you experience a small kaboom, So care should be taken to really get the gas and explosive vapors out of it) I don’t think superglue would hold up.

we were considering a very fine film of plastidip over the whole float, or a tiny bit of jbweld around the seam, but he just wants to get a new carb, they're cheap enough at around $20 and he would rather just buy a new one, me i'm just the opposite, if I can save a few dollars by fixing something myself rather than replace it i'd do that 1st and only replace it if I must.